Stuck Solenoid Stymies Stranded Sheila

['Curly Q Links']

OK, sounds like this happened in Australia, but it's actually in Sherwood Park, Canada. I'm waiting in the parking lot of the grocery store and I see a nice '98 CR-V sitting with the hood up so I stroll by and there's nobody around. Nothing looks obviously wrong with it, so I returned to my car and continued to wait for my wife to return, since she has run inside for 'just a few things'.

Time passes . .

Owner of the V comes out of the store and says she tried both Neutral and Park (I was impressed), but no starter CLICK. We left the key in position II and turned on the headlights . . Idiot lights stayed bright, so I knew it wasn't the battery. We got a hatchet (This woman carries several hatchets in the back of her V) and she held the key to position III while I tapped the solenoid. One light tap and BINGO. V starts like a dream.

I suspect the 12mm bolt might just be a bit loose on the starter, but the brushes in the starter could be worn at 166,000 Km. I remembered a cool site I saw a few days ago and here it is:
http://www.nationsautoelectric.com/Nippondenso.html
www.slhondaparts.com has the starter parts diagrams, but (of course) the solenoid is shown as non-repairable.

About the hatchets . . . Maybe I should have wrote down her license plate number

Maybe I shouldn't have told her my real name.

[fox22]

Cool- well you helped her out so there's one less hatchet-wielding CRV driver that you have to worry about taking a swing at you...

[06whtcrv]

I had a solenoid with worn contacts on a civic Si ('86) - was able to replace the worn contact with parts from a junk yard starter - didn't even have to take the starter off the car! Very simple to fix.

['Curly Q Links']

Originally Posted by 06whtcrv

I had a solenoid with worn contacts on a civic Si ('86) - was able to replace the worn contact with parts from a junk yard starter - didn't even have to take the starter off the car! Very simple to fix.

I spent some time today looking through the HELMS service manual and the HELMS electrical manual. I learned a couple tricks about the starter:


# 1 ___ If it clicks (thunk!) but doesn't start spinning, it's the (burnt up) solenoid's contacts because they handle the high current that makes the starter spin. They are shown on that www.nationsautoelectric.com/Nippondenso.html site. Clicking it several times will usually get it to go, but don't ignore this symptom too long.

# 2 ___ If it doesn't click at all, (or only a tiny click) it's because the coil of the solenoid isn't getting it's path to ground through the windings of the starter (brushes are worn out / hanging, or armature is burnt / bumpy). This is when a little tap on the side of the starter with a hammer / tire iron will get you back in the game most of the time, since the brushes just need a bit of vibration to make them connect.

#3 ___ If it makes a machine gun noise (kinda like ABS activating) your battery is too dead to hold the solenoid engaged or your cables are poorly connected to the battery.

#4 ___ If it makes a single ZAP! and nothing happens (even headlights are dead) then your battery terminals are very loose OR you've connected the battery the wrong way and blown (a lot of other stuff and) the huge fuse in the under-hood box.

In this gal's case its number two, and its not too hard to get the brushes replaced and the armature spruced up at an auto-electric shop.

(when I was a teen) I had a Volvo with a manual tranny and I got along without a starter for a few weeks. It was summertime and I worked at a place with a sloped parking lot.

[Carbuff2]

This was a Loooong time ago,

But the 70's Accords would burn up starter solenoid contacts every few hundred thosand miles. The two copper pieces became available after the factory realized what was happening. I'm kinda hazy on the specifics, but it wasn't too hard to replace the contacts. (I bought my daughter a '76 Accord when she was in high school)

Curly, thanks for being a Good Samaritan!

['Curly Q Links']

Originally Posted by Carbuff2

. . . . the 70's Accords would burn up starter solenoid contacts every few hundred thousand miles.

Man, you had to replace $ 7 worth of parts while others around you had to replace their whole vehicles every few hundred thousand miles.

No wonder the total cost of ownership is so low on Hondas.

:-)

[Carbuff2]

I meant to type "every hundred thousand" miles.



The 70's and early 80's Hondas' biggest flaw was rapid rusting. "Ashes to ashes, rust to dust"

Yeah the mechanicals would last 200K miles (exceptional in the 70s) if you put the miles on fast enough (at least in the rust belt!)

But Toyota and Honda worked on the rust problem and have seemed to overcome it.

[CR-V Bassman]

Buff,

You want rapid rusting, try Crescent City, CA, where we lived on and off for twenty years. They call it "coast cancer" up there, where you can literally hear your older (pre-1990s) vehicles, particularly Detroit Iron, rusting..........

[AirBoss]

Originally Posted by 'Curly Q Links'

I spent some time today looking through the HELMS service manual and the HELMS electrical manual. I learned a couple tricks about the starter.
1-If it clicks (loud) but doesn't start spinning, it's the contacts because the contacts handle the high current that makes the starter spin. They are shown on that www.nationsautoelectric.com/Nippondenso.html site. Clicking it two or three times will usually get it to go.

2- If it doesn't click at all, it's because the coil of the solenoid isn't getting it's path to ground through the windings of the starter (brushes are worn out / hanging, or armature is burnt / bumpy). This is when a little tap on the side of the starter with a hammer / tire iron will get you back in the game most of the time, since the brushes just need a bit of vibration to make them connect.

Then there's your "Type 3" failure, when you turn the key to its first ("RUN") position and the starter spins -- but without any Bendix engagement -- suggesting the solenoid contacts are welded in place.

Just had that occur on the Roadster, requiring a starter R&R.

[Gopal]

Curly,

You write poetry...

After a long time I am reading alliteration in prose
Thanks for that little joy.

Regards,
Gopal