Antifreeze coolant

[ashley]

Had a strange conversation with Honda dealer here in Stockholm, Sweden regarding replacing coolant in my 2003 CRV. The mechanic said that CRVs come with coolant in the radiator that is intended to last for ten years....and that i should not consider buying a generic coolant and top up the coolant level myself. Sounds odd in my opinion but hey i am no mechanic. What says you out there...am i being fed Honda BS or is this correct info ive been given. All comments appreciated!!

[N_Jay]

Had a strange conversation with Honda dealer here in Stockholm, Sweden regarding replacing coolant in my 2003 CRV. The mechanic said that CRVs come with coolant in the radiator that is intended to last for ten years....and that i should not consider buying a generic coolant and top up the coolant level myself. Sounds odd in my opinion but hey i am no mechanic. What says you out there...am i being fed Honda BS or is this correct info ive been given. All comments appreciated!!

1) Start with the owners manual. Does it agree with the dealer? (yes)
2) check the Honda web site. Does it agree with the dealer? (yes)

So the best indication is you are getting the strait story.

As for whether adding non-honda coolant will cause an issue with thne 10 year design life, no one would know for sure without compairing the EXACT formulation of the fluids.

Since most collant is not designed for this type of life span, and most cooling system problems are caused by contamination of the coolant, I certainly plan to only top up with Honda coolant (or distilled water)

[jasbus]

Basically, the Honda coolant is a variation of the Dexcool low silicate coolants. I've had Honda tell me only to use Honda Coolant, as with every other fluid in the car...
It's individual preference, but personally, the only fluid I stick to Honda brand is the auto tranny fluid...
I replace my coolant every 45,000 miles with Dexcool, or another 100,000/10 year low silicate coolant.

[N_Jay]

... the only fluid I stick to Honda brand is the auto tranny fluid...

What about the Dual-Pump and Power Steering?

[jasbus]

Nope, two wheel drive...
and nope, no need for Honda PSF, the only difference is the label, just don't put the cheapo .99 cent crap in, use quality syn base fluid....

[Einstein]

There are a few fluids that you must use from Honda to have the most success with your vehicle:

Power Steering, Coolant, Transmission Fluid, and Dual-Pump differential fluid.

I also get my brake fluid from Honda, but you don't have to.

Your typical short-term risk of using a non-Honda spec product is rougher operation of the system.

The long-term risk is seal damage, material corrosion, and accelerated wear.

Synthetic product are definitely appealing, but some people are getting way too excited about them... they can't stand having and "conventional" fluids in their car.

I would rather have a conventional fluid in the system that I know for sure meets all specifications, then to have a synthetic product that might not meet some part of it.

[roadster]

When you went to look at honda and the crv. didn't you sit down and the dealer tell you, that This car is a maint free car for 100k.....
antifreeze will last that long 10 year or 100k whichever comes first. if you had to change your timing belt b4 due to startup shutoff and riding in extreme tempitures then yep the antifreeze will be replaced ,or a hose break, but check pagearound 238 for the scheduleing

[jasbus]

I make my own schedule..I use the maunal as a rough guide.
As for Honda specific fluids. I agree, ATF, coolant and dual pump should be Honda. But, being that the Honda coolant is basically a low silicate/ low borate coolant, no biggie. The Honda PSF is basically a quality syn base fluid, so I personally don't worry about that one...
That just goes along with Honda suggesting Honda brand 5W20 or 30 oil... No biggie... As long as you take care of it, it'll take care of you.
Brake fluid, well I replace that every other year, with good ole DOT 3.

[N_Jay]

. . . . But, being that the Honda coolant is basically a low silicate/ low borate coolant, . . . . . . The Honda PSF is basically a quality syn base fluid, . . . . . . .

Interested in how you KNOW this?

[bobot]

yeah man. this fluid may melt your something inside your engine, cause rust internally and make your pistons fall off. HONDA specs fluid ONLY!

[jasbus]

To each his own....
It's low silicate, cause it says so, right on the bottle, at least it used to, don't know about now, I haven't been in a Honda dealer in quite some time. As for the borate, simple research found that one out. Yes, I know, don't believe everything you read, but none the less, when it's says low silicate/low borate, that's good enough for me to not spend the extra $$ on the Honda brand. It's a cooling system, for an aluminum engine, and less borate and silicate is designed for modern aluminum engines and less wear on seals.

[N_Jay]

To each his own....
It's low silicate, cause it says so, right on the bottle, at least it used to, don't know about now, I haven't been in a Honda dealer in quite some time. As for the borate, simple research found that one out. Yes, I know, don't believe everything you read, but none the less, when it's says low silicate/low borate, that's good enough for me to not spend the extra $$ on the Honda brand. It's a cooling system, for an aluminum engine, and less borate and silicate is designed for modern aluminum engines and less wear on seals.

Ah.
Don't mean to argue with you, but this is the crux of the issue (on this and many other discussions).
People ASSUME their BLIEFES are KNOWLEGE, then present them as such.
Others read that DATA and take it as TRUTHS, and we end up with much believed MISSINFORMATION.

You KNOW it is low silicate, you are CONFIDENT it is low borate, and you have ASSUMED Dexcool is the SAME or at least COMPATABLE with Honda's coolant.

Now that I know the source;
I agree with the knowlege, and :)
I will choose to also believe what you are confident in, :wink:
but,
I DISSAGREE with your assumption! :(

[jasbus]

Sorry, didn't MEAN to PISS you OFF.
I am CONFIDENT that you FINGERS keep STRAYING to the CAPS lock button.
Honda coolant is low silicate, low borate, and at the very least, IN MY OPINION, compatible with a Dexcool type coolant. This I KNOW. No, I haven't taken a sample to a lab and had it chemically analyzed to make sure it's the same. I don't need to, it's close enough. There is no Misinformation or beliefs, simpy facts. No, it is not an exact match for Honda coolant, I never said it was, it close enough.
NOW, get OFF you HIGH horse, and the CAPS lock. If you WANT to BELIEVE that every honda fluid has to be honda specific, go ahead. I choose my way, I've done so for a long time with 2 hondas. And, before you criticize me for that, yes, only two, the first is still on the road with 300,000 miles on it.
Now, go out in your garage, and change out your windshield washer fluid, make sure it's honda brand though. :roll:

[bobot]

HA3 finally! :oops:

N-Jay, like I said before u must really be working for Honda or you just follow the exact manual to the letters. I'm almost wondering what you do for a living? Engineer? I won't be surprise to find Honda windshield washer on his garage. :evil:

[Einstein]

CONFESSION:

I am an Engineer, and I use the bright orange Rain-X windshield washer fluid. Not just because it works better, but because it matches my Element.

[Vigor25]

I am certain that you can use any coolant for the engine...as long as the coolant does its job at dissipating heat and providing corrosion protection it will not damage yur engine.

there is nothing proprietary about Honda engines...people are just too caught up with what the manual states and develop the 'OEM mentality' as the result.

[N_Jay]

Sorry, didn't MEAN to PISS you OFF.
I am CONFIDENT that you FINGERS keep STRAYING to the CAPS lock button.

You didn't.
The CAPS are for EMPHASIS.

Honda coolant is low silicate, low borate, and at the very least, IN MY OPINION, compatible with a Dexcool type coolant. This I KNOW.
No, I haven't taken a sample to a lab and had it chemically analyzed to make sure it's the same. I don't need to, it's close enough. There is no Misinformation or beliefs, simpy facts. No, it is not an exact match for Honda coolant, I never said it was, it close enough.

Nope, my point exactly. It is your OPINION, it is based on some facts that you KNOW, but that does make your opinion into FACT!
Expressing it as fact only leads to propaging missinformation.

So tell me how do you KNOW it is compatable?
Using your logic milk and piss are interchangable.
They are both water based, both organically produced, ther are probaly a host of substances they are both "free" of. So whats the difference?

NOW, get OFF you HIGH horse, and the CAPS lock. If you WANT to BELIEVE that every honda fluid has to be honda specific, go ahead.

What "High Horse"? I am not the one claiming devine knowlege!
You are the one claiming to be able to take a small number of facts, add a few logical beliefs and come to a conclusion that you are so sure of you have no trouble presenting to others as fact.

I don't think they need to be Honda specific, just meet the manufacturers specifications. With out those specification available, logic dictates that I can not present an argument for the use of substitute fluids. You seem to free of that logic.

I choose my way, I've done so for a long time with 2 hondas. And, before you criticize me for that, yes, only two, the first is still on the road with 300,000 miles on it.
Now, go out in your garage, and change out your windshield washer fluid, make sure it's honda brand though. :roll:

I have absolutly no issue with you taking care of your cars your way.
My concern come up when people start speading missinformation, passing off beliefs as knowlege.

As for Bobot's comment, yes an engineer among other things. No, don't work for Honda, and no Honda windshield washer fluid. I like RainX.

As for following manual exactly, nope far from it, I will often deviate where I have knowlege that allows me to with confidence. Suggest others to deviate, rarly since as a consumer I don't know all the reasons for the manufacturers recommendations, and as a Product Manager, KNOW there are many good reasons not obvious to the consumer! :P

[CR-Vince]

Just to stir the pot a little, I posed the question of compatibility to Havoline back in the fall of '01. Here is the answer I got:

Dear Vincent,
Most conventional green ethylene glycol antifreezes contain silicate along
with many other additives that protect the engine. The problem with
conventional coolants is that they have a short shelf and usage life
(maximum 18 months) and that as the additives protect the metals, they get
used up and form dissolved solid particles which are abrasive to water
pumps, seals, hoses, and gaskets. The silicates, in particular, also cause
problems both as a silicate gel if the additive drops out of solution or as
deposits on different parts of the cooling system causing inefficient heat
transfer. For quite a while the Japanese car manufacturers have required a
silicate-free antifreeze in order to eliminate the problems associated with
silicated antifreezes.

Havoline Extended Life Anti-Freeze/Coolant DEXCOOL® does not contain any of
the additives found in conventional antifreezes, so it is silicate-free,
borate-free, phosphate-free, nitrate-free and nitrite-free. Dexcool is
ethylene glycol based and uses a new & patented additive technology known as
OAT. We have conducted millions of miles of testing on this antifreeze and
have found that that the Dexcool outperforms all conventional antifreezes by
a substantial margin, especially with regard to metal corrosion protection,
including aluminum. The benefits that you will realize using our new
Dexcool product, is longer service life, longer water pump life, and less
maintenance.

If you have any further questions, please contact us at 800-782-7852, option
3, Mon - Fri.

Sincerely,
MaryCarol Boemmel
Senior Lubrication Engineer

Notice that Ms. Boemmel doesn't claim that their product is equal to or better than Honda coolant. However, based on all the information that I have found so far, I won't have any reservations about using Havoline DEX-COOL at my next coolant change.

[N_Jay]

Just to stir the pot a little, I posed the question of compatibility to Havoline back in the fall of '01. Here is the answer I got:

Notice that Ms. Boemmel doesn't claim that their product is equal to or better than Honda coolant. However, based on all the information that I have found so far, I won't have any reservations about using Havoline DEX-COOL at my next coolant change.

I too would have no issue with using it at a coolant change, but would have significant reservations about using it to top up the factory fill and still expect the stated 10 year life.

There is absolutly no information saying the aditives are similar or compatable.

[jasbus]

NJay, they're the same, that's my conclusion. Scientific studies are complete, I drank 8 oz of each, and my pee came out the same color both times....
Now, go drink your chocolate piss, and shut up.
I've never claimed to be devine, I've simply stated my OPINION. Yes, opinion, I've never claimed elsewise, regarless of what you think. Now, here's my original post from earlier in the thread....

Basically, the Honda coolant is a variation of the Dexcool low silicate coolants. I've had Honda tell me only to use Honda Coolant, as with every other fluid in the car...
It's individual preference, but personally, the only fluid I stick to Honda brand is the auto tranny fluid...
I replace my coolant every 45,000 miles with Dexcool, or another 100,000/10 year low silicate coolant.

See that asswipe? It's individual prefernence, but personally, the only fluid....etc....
Now, that I'm done with this arguement, you'll not get another bite on your personal crusade to piss off everyone you talk to. So, do yourself a favor, and stop making yourself look like an even bigger ass. That's it, no more from me on this subject, I'm not gonna be belittled by an idiot that obviously likes to argue more than converse. Oh, sorry, a genius idiot engineer of all trades that knows all(huh, that sounds kind of devine.) Some people just can't get along with others. :?

[N_Jay]

NJay, they're the same, that's my conclusion. Scientific studies are complete, I drank 8 oz of each, and my pee came out the same color both times....
Now, go drink your chocolate piss, and shut up.
I've never claimed to be devine, I've simply stated my OPINION. Yes, opinion, I've never claimed elsewise, regarless of what you think. Now, here's my original post from earlier in the thread....

Basically, the Honda coolant is a variation of the Dexcool low silicate coolants. I've had Honda tell me only to use Honda Coolant, as with every other fluid in the car...
It's individual preference, but personally, the only fluid I stick to Honda brand is the auto tranny fluid...
I replace my coolant every 45,000 miles with Dexcool, or another 100,000/10 year low silicate coolant.

See that asswipe? It's individual prefernence, but personally, the only fluid....etc....
Now, that I'm done with this arguement, you'll not get another bite on your personal crusade to piss off everyone you talk to. So, do yourself a favor, and stop making yourself look like an even bigger ass. That's it, no more from me on this subject, I'm not gonna be belittled by an idiot that obviously likes to argue more than converse. Oh, sorry, a genius idiot engineer of all trades that knows all(huh, that sounds kind of devine.) Some people just can't get along with others. :?

No prob, have a great day.
Sometime when you are in a better mood re-read your posts and you might notice where you state you opinion as fact.
Till then, glad this is over!

[jasbus]

Ok, one last post, can't resist :x
I'm in a perfect mood, I just don't like people to put words in my mouth.
No prob, have a great day.
Sometime when you are in a better mood re-read your posts and you might notice where you state you opinion as fact.
Till then, glad this is over!

I did re-read my posts, couldn't see anything there where I said "Use this or that prduct, because I say so."
Nope, all I see is:

Basically, the Honda coolant is a variation of the Dexcool low silicate coolants. I've had Honda tell me only to use Honda Coolant, as with every other fluid in the car...
It's individual preference, but personally, the only fluid I stick to Honda brand is the auto tranny fluid...
I replace my coolant every 45,000 miles with Dexcool, or another 100,000/10 year low silicate coolant.

Well, It's individual preference, but personally....
not here....

Nope, two wheel drive...
and nope, no need for Honda PSF, the only difference is the label, just don't put the cheapo .99 cent crap in, use quality syn base fluid....

right here, I do post my statement as fact, I agree. But, considering the PS pump is mass produced my Denso, and you'll find the same pump on alot of Jap cars, IN MY OPINION, no need for Honda specific fluid. There, added that one line just to make you happy.

I make my own schedule..I use the maunal as a rough guide.
As for Honda specific fluids. I agree, ATF, coolant and dual pump should be Honda. But, being that the Honda coolant is basically a low silicate/ low borate coolant, no biggie. The Honda PSF is basically a quality syn base fluid, so I personally don't worry about that one...
That just goes along with Honda suggesting Honda brand 5W20 or 30 oil... No biggie... As long as you take care of it, it'll take care of you.
Brake fluid, well I replace that every other year, with good ole DOT 3.

This is the point where you started to piss me off, and and I don't see anything where I say "Hey you, use this or I"ll track you down and make you drink the dirty fluids you drained from your car....

To each his own....
It's low silicate, cause it says so, right on the bottle, at least it used to, don't know about now, I haven't been in a Honda dealer in quite some time. As for the borate, simple research found that one out. Yes, I know, don't believe everything you read, but none the less, when it's says low silicate/low borate, that's good enough for me to not spend the extra $$ on the Honda brand. It's a cooling system, for an aluminum engine, and less borate and silicate is designed for modern aluminum engines and less wear on seals.

Like it says... Dexcool and the other manufacturers of extended life coolant have made the coolant for newer aluminum engines. do a google search, or look on the bottle, no brainer, it's not the space shuttle, it's a cooling system. But, none the less, I didn't say use it, this is the fact. Stated, as it says, it's good enough for me.

Sorry, didn't MEAN to PISS you OFF.
I am CONFIDENT that you FINGERS keep STRAYING to the CAPS lock button.
Honda coolant is low silicate, low borate, and at the very least, IN MY OPINION, compatible with a Dexcool type coolant. This I KNOW. No, I haven't taken a sample to a lab and had it chemically analyzed to make sure it's the same. I don't need to, it's close enough. There is no Misinformation or beliefs, simpy facts. No, it is not an exact match for Honda coolant, I never said it was, it close enough.
NOW, get OFF you HIGH horse, and the CAPS lock. If you WANT to BELIEVE that every honda fluid has to be honda specific, go ahead. I choose my way, I've done so for a long time with 2 hondas. And, before you criticize me for that, yes, only two, the first is still on the road with 300,000 miles on it.
Now, go out in your garage, and change out your windshield washer fluid, make sure it's honda brand though. :roll:

Self explains itself. Obviously pissed. :roll:


NJay, they're the same, that's my conclusion. Scientific studies are complete, I drank 8 oz of each, and my pee came out the same color both times....
Now, go drink your chocolate piss, and shut up.
I've never claimed to be devine, I've simply stated my OPINION. Yes, opinion, I've never claimed elsewise, regarless of what you think. Now, here's my original post from earlier in the thread....

Basically, the Honda coolant is a variation of the Dexcool low silicate coolants. I've had Honda tell me only to use Honda Coolant, as with every other fluid in the car...
It's individual preference, but personally, the only fluid I stick to Honda brand is the auto tranny fluid...
I replace my coolant every 45,000 miles with Dexcool, or another 100,000/10 year low silicate coolant.

See that asswipe? It's individual prefernence, but personally, the only fluid....etc....
Now, that I'm done with this arguement, you'll not get another bite on your personal crusade to piss off everyone you talk to. So, do yourself a favor, and stop making yourself look like an even bigger ass. That's it, no more from me on this subject, I'm not gonna be belittled by an idiot that obviously likes to argue more than converse. Oh, sorry, a genius idiot engineer of all trades that knows all(huh, that sounds kind of devine.) Some people just can't get along with others. :?

There, all explained, in elementary terms for you, happy yet? Well, obviously, no, I'm sure you'll come up with something else.
Heres some ammo:

Honda brand fluids are so specific, that if you even think about using something else in your Honda motor, it'll seize up at exactely 82,852 miles on the odometer, this is a fact.

Honda uses horse urine in their motor oil, that's the only difference between it and commercial motor oil.

Honda motors are made by Nissan.

You can rev your Honda motor up to 22,000 RPM's safely, as long as all the fluids inside are Honda brand. No, really.

[bobot]

:lol:

[bracky]

I ordered some new tires and running boards over the weekend. Wheeeeeeeee! :P

[N_Jay]

Basically, the Honda coolant is a variation of the Dexcool low silicate coolants. . ..

My mistake. I though you said Honda coolant was a variation of the Dexcool coolants. Gues you said it was only your opinion.

The Honda PSF is basically a quality syn base fluid . . .

OK, may mistake here also; You must have been saying that you assumed it is a synttetic base fluid.

Honda coolant is low silicate, low borate, and at the very least, IN MY OPINION, compatible with a Dexcool type coolant. This I KNOW. . . .

Ok, so since it is your OPINION, you KNOW it; Forgive me for questioning the source. (And I ride the "High Horse"?)

NJay, they're the same, that's my conclusion. . .

Guess that is the final word on the subject.

All done.

[bobot]

N_Jay is my heeeeero.

cough cough...

[jasbus]

Mine too. He must work for the press, cutting out just the parts he needs, just enough to make it work for whats needed.

If you take parts of it, then yes, it'll sound exactely how you want it to sound. Democrat. See, now you've done it, I've resorted to bad language.
New can of worms.

Hey, anyone other than Njay catch the ball game?

[jasbus]

Just to stir the pot a little, I posed the question of compatibility to Havoline back in the fall of '01. Here is the answer I got:

Notice that Ms. Boemmel doesn't claim that their product is equal to or better than Honda coolant. However, based on all the information that I have found so far, I won't have any reservations about using Havoline DEX-COOL at my next coolant change.

I too would have no issue with using it at a coolant change, but would have significant reservations about using it to top up the factory fill and still expect the stated 10 year life.

There is absolutly no information saying the aditives are similar or compatable.

Perhaps you mistook my comment about me changing my coolant every 45,000 too. As in, I replace my coolant, as in, in it's entirety, as in, almost every drop, as in, as much as I can possibly get out of the radiator, hoses and block, as in, taking out the old, and putting the new in, as in, never having said, topping off the HOnda fluid. Huh, you must've misunderstood that, imagine that. But, then again, all I said was I replace my coolant, I didin't say drain the old out first now did I. So, I guess I wasn't clear enough.
Why have I let you get under my skin, well, frankly, now I'm finding it fun. I've got a new hobby now.

[Einstein]

With all that typing you guys did, you could have earned the money and spent the time going to a Honda dealership to buy the proprietary coolant. Hehe

[N_Jay]

Perhaps you mistook my comment about me changing my coolant every 45,000 too. As in, I replace my coolant, as in, in it's entirety, as in, almost every drop, as in, as much as I can possibly get out of the radiator, hoses and block, as in, taking out the old, and putting the new in, as in, never having said, topping off the HOnda fluid. Huh, you must've misunderstood that, imagine that. But, then again, all I said was I replace my coolant, I didin't say drain the old out first now did I. So, I guess I wasn't clear enough.
Why have I let you get under my skin, well, frankly, now I'm finding it fun. I've got a new hobby now.

Nope, I saw that, but took your post as an answer to the original question about topping-up the coolant.

So, now in light of the question, do you recommend to other's to top-up with Dexcool?

[bobot]

leave it alone!

[N_Jay]

leave it alone!

What? And give YOU the satisfaction of the "Last Word"? :lol: :lol: :lol:

I think that honor should go to Einstein! :P

[bobot]

Einstein? make this guy happy and GET the honour.

[Einstein]

Is Honda Coolant still part number OL999-9001?

[shinjukumaster]

I replaced my G1's coolant with Synthetic '4-Life' at 24 months and added some Water Wetter too. Reason for latter is my car is dual fuel LPG and gasoline and LPG runs a few degrees hotter (but not enough to be a problem). The coolant is supposed to last 10 years. http://www.synlube.com/prod05.htm

[bobot]

man that synlube website hurts my eyes! i'm still seeing dull spots as a consequence. i don't know if i would wanna buy a product from that company. :D

btw, shinjuku.... are u stirring the pot again? i dnt think u wanna do that.

[N_Jay]

http://www.synlube.com/prod05.htm

Wow, "Synthetic Water", wonder if it comes dehyrated? :lol: :lol: :lol:

And look see, Syntetic antifreeze is made with ethylene glycol, just like Honda's! :lol: :lol:

[bobot]

SEE WHAT YOU"VE DONE!!!! the monster is out again.

[N_Jay]

SEE WHAT YOU"VE DONE!!!! the monster is out again.

Oh come on Bobot; Even a MAC user has to find the line "Synthetic Water" funny? :lol: :lol:

[Einstein]

Almost funny as "instant water... what do I add?"

[jasbus]

http://www.synlube.com/prod05.htm

Wow, "Synthetic Water", wonder if it comes dehyrated? :lol: :lol: :lol:

And look see, Syntetic antifreeze is made with ethylene glycol, just like Honda's! :lol: :lol:

So, you're saying it's compatible with Honda's, right? I can top off with it? :lol:

[Mercury3]

man that synlube website hurts my eyes! i'm still seeing dull spots as a consequence. i don't know if i would wanna buy a product from that company. :D

btw, shinjuku.... are u stirring the pot again? i dnt think u wanna do that.

I read bad things conerning SYNLUBE when I was doing my research into oils.

I don't think I'd feel comfortable with any of their products myself.

NO I DON'T REMEMBER WHERE I READ IT OR HAVE A LINK, lol

I only hit about 10,000 oil sites(joking) and can't remeber everywhere I went now and my wife is ready to trade me in for spending all my time on the computer so I'm trying to cut back............... just putting in my 2cents once in a while

[CRV440]

3 minutes of my life wasted looking for something I could learn from this thread...

[shinjukumaster]

I'm using the synthetic coolant, not the lube (for the engine I use Mobil 1). I thought its called sythetic because it synthesizes the properties of a coolant? Don't see anything wrong with that. The 4-Life coolant is carried by a highly regarded performance store here in UK so I doubt its problematic if used correctly. I would use it as a replacement like I did but not to top off any other coolant.