Factory "Seconds"

[fjcastro]

Ok, you ready for another stupid question? How can you tell if the dealer is trying you sell you a factory second. Is there any way to verify this by means of the VIN number? Do you have to wait until the car keeps breaking down after you buy it?

I'm ready to plunk down my cash and I just want to make sure everything is on the up and up.

Thanks.

[alirose4]

A factory second? I have never heard this before... Where are you from? Do you mean a lemon?
The way I see it... A honda is a honda. I would give them trust for who they are. I would second guess Kia however.
Honda isn't going to sell you a car with no strings. They give you a warranty on the thing. Have some faith man!

[sleeksilver]

What is a factory second??? :?

[alirose4]

Also I looked to see if you mentioned your location on another message... It said Northern Ca. I grew up in Redding. I never heard this before.... :confused:

[mdugan7000]

Cars that have been re-purchased via "lemon laws" cannot be re-sold. They are generally either dismantled for parts or simply crushed. The VIN and the title are marked as salvage in some states. Other states require a title that will not allow the car to ever be driven on the road again and will be labeled as non-repairable on the title.

[jreagan]

I don't know about Honda, but my Ford Explorer was a "second". It was being delivered to some dealer when the truck was caught in a hail storm. Ford replaced the hood and rear window (I made them show me the repair sheets). They can't sell the car as new, but instead auction them back to dealers to sell as "used" cars. I essentially bought a used car with 18 miles on the odometer.

[mdugan7000]

I don't know about Honda, but my Ford Explorer was a "second". It was being delivered to some dealer when the truck was caught in a hail storm. Ford replaced the hood and rear window (I made them show me the repair sheets). They can't sell the car as new, but instead auction them back to dealers to sell as "used" cars. I essentially bought a used car with 18 miles on the odometer.

That's a whole different deal. Some states have laws that regulate how much shipping damage can be repaired on a new car before it has to be disclosed. In some cases, the title even has to be adjusted.

['Curly Q Links']

You can buy 'seconds' with the name Levi Straus sewn on the back pocket, but you can't get a Honda like that.

Welcome to the different universe of HONDA.

:shock:

[dreese9859]

Does he mean factory seconds as in one's they randomly select from the manufactured population to test drive? Even those are considered new, though.

[mdugan7000]

Does he mean factory seconds as in one's they randomly select from the manufactured population to test drive? Even those are considered new, though.

Demo's - as long as the vehicle has not been titled, it is considered new. But, a demo would have a bunch of miles on them.

[connermt]

Does he mean factory seconds as in one's they randomly select from the manufactured population to test drive? Even those are considered new, though.

Cars we build that we allow (lease) to the company employees are kept within the company. After the lease is up, we sell them, but only to internal Honda employees, never to the public. It is good, RT feedback. I am not sure how dealers do it with the cars they let their employees use, though

Car that are produced with quality concerns are segregated before they leave for dealerships (many times before they leave the mfg'ing floor). Internally, you can tell which ones had problems, but not externally.

[4hondaowner]

What is a factory second??? :?

Racoon has an answer for everything. Wait for him to find this thread and all of us will be filled with his knowledge.

:shock:

[Racoon]

In general manufacturing terms it means something that was discovered to have a defect after being manufactured and is being sold for a discount. Sometimes the defect is repaired, sometimes it is not.

Different states deal with new vehicles that have been repaired, dealer demos, and lemons/returns in different ways. In most cases if the vehicle was ever registered it can not be sold as 'new'. If it was damaged and then repaired before being sold or registered it may not show on a title search, depending on the state where you live and how they have legislated this kind of issue.

If you have any doubt about the condition of a 'new' vehicle that you're buying run the VIN number through a service like CarFax or check it through your state motor vehicles department. It's not a perfect solution, but it could help.

And no matter what you do to research the condition of the vehicle, if your intution tells you something just isn't "right" about the deal, then walk away. You can always find another vehicle, but dealing with a 'lemon' can take up significant amounts of time, and just isn't worth it.

JM2C

[barbecuesauce99]

I can't imagine this forums without Mr.racoon.:)

[connermt]

In general manufacturing terms it means something that was discovered to have a defect after being manufactured and is being sold for a discount. Sometimes the defect is repaired, sometimes it is not.


To add to this:
Speaking specifically for automotive, defects found after completed mfg'ing of a vehicle are corrected & as long as the corrections fall within standards, the vehicle is sold as a new vehicle.
We destroy many completed vehicles because 1) the defect is too extensive or 2) the repair negates our quality.

[amk]

Can you ask for a written guarantee/agreement from the dealer and put in clauses for refund if the vehicle is found to be one of the above mentioned?

AMK

[Racoon]

You can ask...but getting such an agreement in writing is a completely different matter.

:)

[connermt]

Can you ask for a written guarantee/agreement from the dealer and put in clauses for refund if the vehicle is found to be one of the above mentioned?

AMK

What do you mean here? Written guarantee for what?

[amk]

That the so called brand new vehicle you are purchasing is not a lemon, damaged and repaired, demo, returned, etc...

AMK

[connermt]

That the so called brand new vehicle you are purchasing is not a lemon, damaged and repaired, demo, returned, etc...

AMK

The dealer doesn't know if the car was repaired or had some type of defect from the factory (unless, or course, it arrived with damage from the transport or the like). At which time, the dealer would probably try to either return it to the mfg'er (if it's bad) or repair it themsleves, seeking monetary reimbursement from the mfg'er. Once it's fixed, they would try to sell it publically.

Demo cars aren't sold from Honda to the dealer (for public sale) or to the public directly, but dealers can use cars as their own demos. Any car being sold as new with a lot of miles on it I would question as a demo car. It should still come with a warranty & if the dealer drops the asking price, you might want to opt for an extended warranty as something of a buffer.

The dealer wouldn't know if the car would be a lemon or not. If it is proven to be a lemon via the lemon laws, it usually goes back to (baught back from) the mfg'er & some sort of compensation is made at that time.

As far as the factory goes, cars aren't like furniture or clothing ("scratch-n-dent" models). There is too great of a chance that a 'bad' car sold to the public can cause injury & result in a lawsuit towards the mfg'er.

As far as dealers go, a respectable one would note any damage the vehicle may have (hail damage is a big one in my area - many dealers have "Hail Sales" to unload damaged product with the responsibility to fix it yours).

Can you track your new vehicle to see if there was any type of repair work done on it from/@ the factory? Not really.
Can you track your new vehicle to see it there was any type of repair work done on it from/@ the dealer? Not really (unless, of course, they share that info with you or it is very noticable).
You might be able to track this info with a used vehicle with a car-fax report, but those only show if major damage/repairs were reported. If the damage (major or not) wasn't reported out, then it won't appear on a car-fax report.

Perhaps 30%-60% (dependent of mfg'er) of vehicles purchased new have had some type of factory repair done to them.

[Racoon]

The dealer wouldn't know if the car would be a lemon or not. If it is proven to be a lemon via the lemon laws, it usually goes back to (baught back from) the mfg'er & some sort of compensation is made at that time.
amk is from India, which may not have the same kind of consumer protection laws that we have in the US (aka lemon laws), which I think is why the question was asked.

:?

[connermt]

amk is from India, which may not have the same kind of consumer protection laws that we have in the US (aka lemon laws), which I think is why the question was asked.

:?
Let's hope they have some type of consumer protection then.
Even so, there is no public tracability back to the mfg'er for cars that have had repairs @ the factory. Dealers in India might be able to get away with certain things that they can't in the states.
AMK, check your local legal council for auto consumer protection laws.

[z168]

Demo's - as long as the vehicle has not been titled, it is considered new. But, a demo would have a bunch of miles on them.

I used to work for a car manufacturer. Demo vehicles used for commercial shoots or such dont even hit the dealers. they are sold for half price sometimes to the employees. Manufacturers are making too much money and cant afford bad press to just dispose of a few cars

I also knew of a guy who bought a 4year old car from Nissan but was considered new. The car lacked a few upgrade parts and was left alone at the dealership. after 4 years they eventually sold it as NEW but with full disclosure to my friend.

[amk]

I was asking about the US, not for India.

Here there are laws, there are loopholes, there are blatant cheaters, liars and a few good folk.

I know friends who have been sold badly accident damaged cars as brand new, when they found out about it the dealer refused to acknowledge the problem and the matters went to court. Eventually they won the lawsuit but imagine the hassle!

There was manufacturer who was known to even sell used cars (years old) as brand new; thank God they have shut down for good and hope they never return.

I wouldn't expect Honda dealers to try such stunts as Honda must be setting pretty high standards but it's good to put one's mind at ease when paying almost USD 60K for a V.

See my other thread about Honda paint jobs, and the problem with my hood paint. Due to this problem I started getting suspicious but a Honda representative finally came down from the capital and assured me Honda would never do such a thing. They even replaced my entire hood with a hood of another new V so I am a happy fella now. Though they weren't too clear about what is going to happen with my old hood. I prefer not to ponder over it because if my fears turn out to be true then I'll suspect every small damn problem in my car I ever have (not that I have any so far).

AMK

[Racoon]

I was asking about the US, not for India.
The US has "lemon laws" that vary from state to state.

The simplest description is if the dealer can't fix a problem after a number of repeated attempts, or after the vehicle has been in the dealers possession while attempting to fix the same problem for a number of days, then you can file for a replacement or refund under the "lemon laws".

The number of attempts, and number of days they have your vehicle without repairing it in order for the vehicle to be considered a "lemon" vary greatly from state to state.

:)

[amk]

Racoon, that's fine but what happens if the dealer damages the car in his lot before purchase, gets it fixed and then sells it without disclosure?

And what happens if you find out after a while that it has been fixed, repainted, etc...?

AMK

[Racoon]

Racoon, that's fine but what happens if the dealer damages the car in his lot before purchase, gets it fixed and then sells it without disclosure?

And what happens if you find out after a while that it has been fixed, repainted, etc...?
Some states have laws that cover that kind of situation, but usually have a cost involved. "Minor" damage can be repaired and not disclosed, but over a certain amount the repair must be disclosed.


:)

[Polly]

I really doubt that many Honda dealers are willing to chance selling used 2007 CRVs when sites, such as listed below, are available. At this location you can get a free CARFAX Vehicle History Report. It is really is a report-and free. I just looked up and found 22 2007 CRVs in the south Florida area. Can't firure out why they are there, but they are,...and they are very expensive also. Granted the site searches by the make/model/year, not the VIN, but it is still helpful if you are looking for a specific used vehichle. The VIN is included in the search results. Click on the various links to get the given selling price, vehichle reports, specs., etc.

http://www.carfax.com/used_car_classifieds/hotcars_searchdisplay.cfm

[Polly]

I just looked up 2007 Toyota RAV4. 119 used 2007 RAVS listed in the same area as the 22 used 2007 CRVs. No comment.