Change Transmission fluid

[vcllvc]

I want to change the transmission fluid by myself. Is there any different of the honda one and after market Dexron III. Which is more preferrable or any different? The manual suggest using Honda transmission fluid and does not recommand any other. They even said it has to drain and refill with Honda ATF as soon as convenient. Is it true?

Thanks

Vincent

[N_Jay]

I want to change the transmission fluid by myself. Is there any different of the honda one and after market Dexron III. Which is more preferrable or any different? The manual suggest using Honda transmission fluid and does not recommand any other. They even said it has to drain and refill with Honda ATF as soon as convenient. Is it true?

Thanks

Vincent

Yes, you must use Honda fluid.
These transmissions require a specific type of fluid.

It is not a quallity issue, it is a specifications issue.

[jasbus]

That is the one fluid in a honda I don't even recommend you try any other brand in...
Honda ATF only....

[Gopal]

Jasbus, N_Jay,

That's the second time in the week you two agreed!! :lol:

Good show guys ;)

[bobot]

WTF! another honda specific fluid? so now what's so special about their transmission that it requires honda tranny fluid that i can't use Mobil 1's synthetic ATF? sheeeeez! if they keep specifying honda branded fluids, they should provide it for free!

so anyone knows what will happen if you don't use their ATF? jasbus, n-jay?

[N_Jay]

WTF! another honda specific fluid? so now what's so special about their transmission that it requires honda tranny fluid that i can't use Mobil 1's synthetic ATF? sheeeeez! if they keep specifying honda branded fluids, they should provide it for free!

so anyone knows what will happen if you don't use their ATF? jasbus, n-jay?

Not ANOTHER, its the same as always!

Best guess based on peoples comments here and my experiance with a Dodge (same as many others Chrysler experiance) is you will not notice any issues for a while then you will start to notice a slight vibration during steady cruise. This is a typical sympton of the torque converter lock-up clutch slipping. It starts to slip due to excessive wear. The exessive wear is typically caused by using an ATF with the WRONG friction coefficiant. (Not BAD fluid, WRONG fluid!). Changing back the fluid when you first notice the problem often hides the symptom for a while, but the clutch will again start to slip due to the excessive wear.

Why the Chrysler reference? The same engineering firm, that designed the Honda transmission also designed the Chrysler transmissions.
The Chrysler is probably designed with a bit less margin, and chrysler owners might be a bit more likely to put in the wrong ATF. Either way, you can not talk about a Chrysler without someone bringging up this issue it so common.

[Einstein]

Oh boy.

Use ATF-Z1 and be happy!

[jasbus]

Major difference between the two is, about a 3 to 1 ratio. IE-3 Chyrsler trannies to 1 Honda tranny... :mrgreen:
Auto Honda trannies are, in my opinion at least, the weakest link on the vehicle.... I prefer manual myself, and never buy an auto...Just wish the wife would agree with me. :?

[jasbus]

Jasbus, N_Jay,

That's the second time in the week you two agreed!! :lol:

Good show guys ;)

I try.............. just not real hard.. :roll: :lol:

[bobot]

did u guys know that honda.ca also recommends only using honda 5w20 oil?

"Notes: Use Genuine Honda 5W20 Motor Oil" where does it stop?

honda tires, honda air filters, honda wax, honda hitch, honda bike rack, honda speakers, honda everything.... etc. HONDA GASOLINE to stop those knocking problems!!!! oh boy!

i can't be happy w/ all these requirements. there's no freedom of choice. so the only thing ONLY thing we can use another brand is the motor oil and filter. all the other liquids needs to be honda.

this tranny better last a very long time. :evil:

[N_Jay]

did u guys know that honda.ca also recommends only using honda 5w20 oil?

"Notes: Use Genuine Honda 5W20 Motor Oil" where does it stop?

honda tires, honda air filters, honda wax, honda hitch, honda bike rack, honda speakers, honda everything.... etc. HONDA GASOLINE to stop those knocking problems!!!! oh boy!

i can't be happy w/ all these requirements. there's no freedom of choice. so the only thing ONLY thing we can use another brand is the motor oil and filter. all the other liquids needs to be honda.

this tranny better last a very long time. :evil:

Does it realy say that?

Guess CA does not have as good consumer protection as the US, :)

It's no conspiracy, its business. If I can't trust the certification body, the I will specify a suppier I trust. As a product manager I am not putting my a$$ on the line recommending anything but OEM parts and suppies.

Maybe you have a different experiance.
Maybe in CA the oil standards are too loose?

[jasbus]

Proud to say, the only Honda things on my V that didn't come factory, are teh front mud flaps, and the tranny fluid...
Yeah, I agree, it's all in the mind of cornering more money...

[vcllvc]

ok, so I'll need 3 bottles, which is 3 qts for a change, am I right?

[Namcali]

I think generic ATF Dextron III *would* work on honda AT; however, for a peace of mind plus couple bucks, I would rather stick with *Honda ATF*. Yeah it's another way of ripping us off, but think of this way, how much extra are you paying? couple bucks, plus, how often do you replace the tranny fluid? not that often {(I replace it once every 20K miles (4 oild changes)} so I think it's worth a few extra bucks for a peace of mind. It's expensive to do anything with the AT...so you go and figure it out!

Yes, it's easier to replace the tranny fluid than the engine oil on the CR-V. And did you notice, Honda AT is among the only AT that does not require the filter? that does save you like $50 on avg....so take a good care of your tranny!

JM2C,

Namcali

[bobot]

well subaru does have a filter BUT you don't actually change it. it's good for the life of the car... so that's the same. subaru doesn't ask for subaru ATF.... so i guess honda trannies are special. (right!) what about toyotas, do they ask for special ATF too? somehow i have a feeling only honda (i said feeling). if anyone knows a RAV4 user maybe they can ask if they require toyota branded fluids.

i'm not saying the honda fluids are not good, i just want to be able to choose something else and not be forced to use their own. for one thing i want to use synthetic fluids, i'm not sure if the honda ATF or rear diff oil is synthetic. somehow i don't think so. i may be wrong.

[N_Jay]

I think generic ATF Dextron III *would* work on honda AT;

Thinking does not make it so.
AND Dextron is "generic" ATF, it is a specifc ATF for transmissions designed or its use.

There realy are differences in ATF fluids.

People keep confusing the concept of one fluid being "different" from another with "better".

I certainly would not use Dextron, it is designed (yes, these fluids are DESIGNED for the appication) for GM transmissions and the hydrolic and clutch systems in GM transmissions.

At least if you are going to do something stupid, do something "thoughtfull" and stupid, use Chrysler ATF, sice the transmissions are of similar design.

[N_Jay]

... subaru doesn't ask for subaru ATF.... so i guess honda trannies are special. (right!) what about toyotas, do they ask for special ATF too? somehow i have a feeling only honda (i said feeling). if anyone knows a RAV4 user maybe they can ask if they require toyota branded fluids.

i'm not saying the honda fluids are not good, i just want to be able to choose something else and not be forced to use their own. for one thing i want to use synthetic fluids, i'm not sure if the honda ATF or rear diff oil is synthetic. somehow i don't think so. i may be wrong.

Critical Reading time:

1) Honda doies not require HONDA BRANDED fluids, just fluids that meet Honda's SPECFICATIONS. You seem to confuse this point (repeatedly).

2) Lots of vehicles require specific ATF, Dextron is specific to GM, Ford has 2 or 3 DIFFERENT formulations, Chrysler has had at least 2 of their own and has required Dextron in some transmissions.

3) Your argument starts with "choice" but usually reverts to "cost" with references to "gouging" or unfair "profit", yet you have PIAA lights (way over priced for their quallity, and a K&N air filter which is an expensive and inapropriate choice for most common road vehicles.

4) BETTER and DIFFERENT are not the same. Two types of ATF can be of the same quality and be of different specifications. Two fluids can meet the same specification and be if different quality. Synthetic ATF is (usually) considered to be of better quality than conventional, howevert it is still just as critical that it meet the required SPECIFICATIONS.

5) It is up to the ATERMARKET suppier to assure their products meet the required specifications, not the original manufacturer! Oil specifications are set by an independant specifications body, ANSI/SAE. To my knowlege ATF has no such specifications, and therefor falls to the original manufacturer to set the specifications.

6) No one has siad they know (not assumed, not thought) that Honda was somehow maintaining there specifications as proprietary. If this was the case I am sure the aftermarket suppiers would gladly make a stink over it. I ASSUME (Idon't know, but can't find evidence to the contrary) that the aftermarket suppliers do not consider the Honda fluid market lucrative enougfht to go after. This could be due to the size of the market, or the fact that UNLIKE the other manufacturers fluids, there is not enough margin to make it profitable. (Might indicate that Honda ATF is priced fairly for its composition)

[bobot]

Critical Reading time:

1) Honda doies not require HONDA BRANDED fluids, just fluids that meet Honda's SPECFICATIONS. You seem to confuse this point (repeatedly).

yup maybe i'm confused or maybe it's just a way for honda to re-word them. do u work for honda dude? i love it when u start laying your arguments down 1-2-3... kinda make u sound so knowledgable. full of answers.

2) Lots of vehicles require specific ATF, Dextron is specific to GM, Ford has 2 or
3 DIFFERENT formulations, Chrysler has had at least 2 of their own and has required Dextron in some transmissions.

yes, yes, yes. but they all could be bought over the counter at most auto supply. just called subaru and they don't require special subaru fluids on their vehicle. toyota specifies a toyota ATF, similar to honda's "requirement". btw, when they specify an actual part number to use i pretty much call that a requirement. toyota's rear diff is any GL-5 spec... with weight depending on the environment.

3) Your argument starts with "choice" but usually reverts to "cost" with references to "gouging" or unfair "profit", yet you have PIAA lights (way over priced for their quallity, and a K&N air filter which is an expensive and inapropriate choice for most common road vehicles.

huh? cost? gouging? i think u're the one that's confused. the only time i even mention cost is when i said something like all in the name of more profit. i just changed my girlfriend's subaru w/ synthetic ATF that is 3-4 times more $ than the regular type. i just put amsoil oil in my engine that is also 3-4 times more $ than the run of the mill dino oil. don't give me crap about being cost conscious. i buy quality stuff when it needs to be. and i don't need your advice on my choice of filter or bulbs even if i do agree i could have done better on them. who made you god of this forum.

4) BETTER and DIFFERENT are not the same. Two types of ATF can be of the same quality and be of different specifications. Two fluids can meet the same specification and be if different quality. Synthetic ATF is (usually) considered to be of better quality than conventional, howevert it is still just as critical that it meet the required SPECIFICATIONS.

agree.

5) It is up to the ATERMARKET suppier to assure their products meet the required specifications, not the original manufacturer! Oil specifications are set by an independant specifications body, ANSI/SAE. To my knowlege ATF has no such specifications, and therefor falls to the original manufacturer to set the specifications.

i dnt know.

6) This could be due to the size of the market, or the fact that UNLIKE the other manufacturers fluids, there is not enough margin to make it profitable. (Might indicate that Honda ATF is priced fairly for its composition)

if you believe that. u see my opinion is this. honda does not make their own oil. they get someone else to w/ their specs. whether they are holding on to the specs secretly or not we all don't know. about the profit comment... u must believe in honda products a lot to think that their composition may not have a good margin yet they sell it.

anyways, the end. some are just plain happy to use whatever honda recommends or requires.... some are not. yes in this case i will probably use what honda requires because there is no alternative but i'm not happy doing with, but the moment mobil 1 produces one you can be sure i'm on it.

[N_Jay]

Don't hold your breath.
They do not make a fluid for Chrysler transmissions.
In fact THEY, Mobil, specifically recommend against using their fluid in a Chryser transmission!

And the way I figure it with leaking and frequent changes, the Chrysler market must be several time the size of the Honda market. :mrgreen:

[jasbus]

That, and people keep buying Chrslyer over and over, can't figure that one out...If it breaks over and over, why would you trade it in on another???

[CR-Vince]

Before we forget about you, vcllvc . . .

Yes, 3 quarts of Honda ATF-Z1 is the correct amount for a fluid change. Let us know if you need any more help.

[Einstein]

An AUTOMATIC transmission fluid change replaces almost 1/2 of the system's capacity, the rest stays up inside part of they system.

If you change your fluid every 30,000 miles, you are replacing enough of the fluid.

If it's been much longer than that, or you are unaware of the vehicle's history, you might want to change it two or three times in a row, driving the vehicle several days in between each change.

[vcllvc]

Thanks everyone, lots of info that more than I expected.
CR-Vince and Einstein thanks for not forgetting me.

[jlevy]

Critical Reading time:

... yes in this case i will probably use what honda requires because there is no alternative but i'm not happy doing with, but the moment mobil 1 produces one you can be sure i'm on it.

FWIW, Amsoil ATF is recommended for applications requiring Honda Z-1 transmission fluids.

-my 0.02

[Skavatar]

i just had a 30,000 mile service on my 02. the mechie showed me the trans fluid, it was a dark brown. i told him to do a trans flush.

[BCheng_ca]

mine is light gray...
did an ATF change (not flush), and its still light gray but with a bit of red... :-P

[Skavatar]

on a 2nd gen V, when you change the trans fluid you're only changing about 3 quarts. there is a total of about 9 quarts in the entire transmission system. a flush will clean most of it out. i would guess that a "change" would put 3 quarts of new trans fluid in and a "flush" would put in about 8 quarts of new trans fluid.

[bracky]

My feeling is this. We choose to buy a brand of vehicle that history has proven to be of top reliability. So if they tell me to use a specific fluid that is what I shall use. I don't see the use in complaining about this until you have some sort of problem associated with the use of that fluid. Sure you might use some fancy aftermarket stuff in your subaru but at the end of the day when the honda is still running and driving good and the subaru is not.... Well you know what I'm getting at. :)

[bobot]

maybe not the subaru.... subaru makes great cars.

WRX.... boy i would love to have one of those.

[jlevy]

My feeling is this. We choose to buy a brand of vehicle that history has proven to be of top reliability. So if they tell me to use a specific fluid that is what I shall use. I don't see the use in complaining about this until you have some sort of problem associated with the use of that fluid. Sure you might use some fancy aftermarket stuff in your subaru but at the end of the day when the honda is still running and driving good and the subaru is not.... Well you know what I'm getting at. :)

You're probably right, but I just prefer to use synthetic lubricants when possible. I'll probably use the Amsoil ATF when it's time in the CR-V

...oh, and my Subaru is still running strong after two hard years and a track day at MSR :wink:

-JL

[WGRoper]

I flushed the tranny in my 98 lx this past weekend and replaced with Amsoil ATF (which meets Honda specifications, BTW).

If you only drain the 2.9 quarts from the tranny through the drain on the bottom of the case, you are not changing the fluid, but rather diluting the old stuff by about half. I think the total capacity of the transmission is 7.2 quarts, there is a lot of the old stuff left in the torque converter, valve body, pump, etc.

Flushing the trasmission on the first gen is really easy.
1. First, drive the car to warm things up.
2. Jack it up, probably best to jack all four corners and use jack stands so it is level.
3. Drain the fluid from the drain on the bottom of the transmission, be sure to clean off the magnetic drain plug before reinstalling.
4. Top off the transmission. It should take less than 3 quarts to fill it. DON'T OVERFILL.
5. Disconnect the oil cooler line on the driver's side of the transmission cooler and connect some vinyl tubing to the cooler so you can pump the fluid into an appropriate container. I found it easier to remove the splash guart so I could get to the hose without burning myself on the exhaust.
6. place the vinyl tube in a clear container, something you can measure a quart with.
7. Have someone crank the engine and watch the old black stuff pump into the quart container. Shut off the engine when the level is slightly below 1 quart.
8. Add a quart to the transmission.
9. Repeat the process until the fluid being pumped out is nice and clean. You should easily see the difference in the color.

The whole process took a little more than an hour and everything is nice and fresh. I noticed an immediate difference in shift quality and stall speed after replacing with Amsoil ATF. The V was slow to engage after coming to a stop, that has been virtually eliminated. I'm not totally convinced that this improvement was due to Amsoil as it very well could have improved with any new fluid. I'm driving the vehicle on a long trip this coming weekend. We'll see how it goes, I'm hoping for a measurable increase in mpg.

[WGRoper]

Accidently posted a link to this post here. Deleted.

[Mercury3]

I noticed an immediate difference in shift quality and stall speed after replacing with Amsoil ATF. The V was slow to engage after coming to a stop, that has been virtually eliminated. I'm not totally convinced that this improvement was due to Amsoil as it very well could have improved with any new fluid. I'm driving the vehicle on a long trip this coming weekend. We'll see how it goes, I'm hoping for a measurable increase in mpg.

I found it hard to believe but I noticed the exact same observations as you mentioned when I put the AMSOIL ATF in my Accord V6. Perhaps it's due to new fluid but my Accord only has 25k on it so the Honda fluid still should have been good.

I've got it in my V now too but honestly I couldn't notice any difference in my V. That might be because it's my wifes so I'm not as tuned to it's performance as I am the Accord's.

I hate to plug AMSOIL ATF (I don't even use their oil) but there is no question in my mind it's made an improvement in my Accord.

[WGRoper]

After 3500 miles, so far, so good. I haven't been able to determine any increase in mpg, but then again, I replaced the tires with oversized Michelin's about a week after the switch to Amsoil, and I suspected there would be a degradation in mileage. I'm still getting a consistent 24mpg, figuring in the 5% error in the odometer from the 215/70R15s.

['Curly Q Links']

ok, so I'll need 3 bottles, which is 3 qts for a change, am I right?

I always buy 4 litres of Z1, but I get exactly four litres out by letting the engine pump out a bunch extra. I run the engine for about ten seconds (in drive) after the fluid stops draining freely, and I make sure the vehicle is a bit lower at the front-right corner. I also make sure the tranny is WARM so the crud is still in suspension.

Works on the Odyssey . . and on the CRV. :-)

[bobot]

ok, so I'll need 3 bottles, which is 3 qts for a change, am I right?

I always buy 4 litres of Z1, but I get exactly four litres out by letting the engine pump out a bunch extra. I run the engine for about ten seconds (in drive) after the fluid stops draining freely, and I make sure the vehicle is a bit lower at the front-right corner. I also make sure the tranny is WARM so the crud is still in suspension.



what did u mean by running the engine for ten secons in drive? after u have let the 4 L u would start and run the engine? as in drive around for 10 secs? or just idle for 10 secs? idle w/ the tranny in D but w/ brakes on (car not moving)?

[N_Jay]

ok, so I'll need 3 bottles, which is 3 qts for a change, am I right?

I always buy 4 litres of Z1, but I get exactly four litres out by letting the engine pump out a bunch extra. I run the engine for about ten seconds (in drive) after the fluid stops draining freely, and I make sure the vehicle is a bit lower at the front-right corner. I also make sure the tranny is WARM so the crud is still in suspension.



what did u mean by running the engine for ten secons in drive? after u have let the 4 L u would start and run the engine? as in drive around for 10 secs? or just idle for 10 secs? idle w/ the tranny in D but w/ brakes on (car not moving)?

Since a 10 second drive won't get you anywhere, I assumed he meant just put it in drive.

It's a very good procedure for pumping out a few more oz of ATF while insuring the transmission gets a good dose of air! :evil: :roll: :evil:
Yep, lots of bubbles floating through a hydaulic system, Mmmm, Mmmmm, Good!

[MikeN]

Can't beat a little after-dinner sarcasm.

http://www.fansofrealitytv.com/forums/images/smilies/lol.gif http://www.fansofrealitytv.com/forums/images/smilies/lol.gif http://www.fansofrealitytv.com/forums/images/smilies/lol.gif



(Sorry Curly. :cry:)

[bobot]

we can't expect anything less from N_Jay. ha3

[N_Jay]

we can't expect anything less from N_Jay. ha3

Well when common sense will not get through, sometimes sarcasm can make the point! :twisted:

Anyone anywhere find any reliable reference that this procedure is recommneded??????? :evil: :evil: :evil:

My Dodge (similar trans to the Honda) would throw an error code due to "lack of prime", if it got any air in it!

Yet, we have supposed "experts" recommending something that no service manual I have ever seen recommends!