I need help on comparing a Jepp Liberty to the CRV!!

[amycope]

Ok, my brother in law just bought a very nice 2002 Jeep Liberty Limited Edition. I bought my CRV back in Feb. of this year. It's a 2004 EX addition with running boards, roof racks, moon roof shade, plus other things and I love it. Well he is constantly comparing my V to his Liberty and I come back as good as I can but I'm lost when it come to under the hood. Any help on comebacks? :) I do always remind him that my kid's legs are not up against the front seat when driving lol But it's like everytime I see him, he has to find something else to compare.

[rangerj64]

Here are some useless facts for ya.
Jeep: 3.7liter V6, 210hp, 235 ft/lb, 4115lb curb weight, 17/21 mpg rated, 7.9 inches ground clearance, 174.4" long, 70" tall, 71.6" wide, 29 cubic ft luggage space, 69 cubic ft maximum cargo space, 40.8" front leg room, 37.2" rear leg room.

CRV: 2.4 liter I4, 160hp, 162 ft/lb, 3347lb curb weight, 22/26 mpg rated, 8.1 inches ground clearance, 178.6" long, 66.2" tall, 70.2" wide, 33.5 cubic ft luggage space, 72 cubic ft maximum cargo space, 41.3" front leg room, 39.4" rear leg room.

There you go! The V is bigger, has more room, gets better gas mileage, just as fast, has more ground clearance---that one should get him, and possibly costs less; plus it's a Honda. He had to sacrifice all of that just for a true 4x4 system, big deal---has it even been off-road? All of those numbers came from Edmunds so if it is to be disputed, dispute them, not me.

[jeeplikens]

amy, there isn't much you can compair under the hood. He has a V6 and you have a 4cyl. He can tow 5000lbs and you can tow 1500. What you need to understand is these are 2 SUV's designed for 2 different needs. His is for offroading when not jumping curbs at the mall and your's is for light to moderate offroad driving but most use is for adverse weather and unpaved roads. What you need to do that might shut him up is show him that you understand he has a jeep. It's a good jeep and it's getting great write ups, it's as reliable as anything out there but it's a domestic built car. Therefore, he can bank on it being worth less than a V from the same year. About 1500 less. That's not much but V's as well as other Hondas hold value longer than domestic built cars. When it comes to ride, you will win if you like a car like ride more than the solid/stiff ride you get with the KJ. As far as room goes, there isn't much difference and I have 3 kids who ride in the back of my 04 Liberty and I don't have the "knee in the back" problem. Could it be he has his seat pushed all the way back? If so, push yours all the way back and see how much room you have. Not much. People buy V's for various reasons but I can assure you, it's not for hard offroad use. The Jeep brand is made for this therefore, you need to point out to him that your MPG is much better, your resell value is better and Honda has a proven reputation. Right now, the Jeep brand is fighting it's old rep of being a money pit. The Liberty is proving that it's a good buy but I wouldn't recommend it as a primary people mover or something you would want to drive on long trips. It might not be the first out of the gate but load it with people and he will not see any power drain as you will (honda needs a V6). Once you get him to understand these are 2 different vehicles, he might shut up. Have him to come over to WWW.KJJEEP.COM and spend some time with the rest of of KJ owners and leave you alone.

[Advanex]

Honda...Jeep...Not much to compair...Keep them for 5-10yrs and see whose is still running, and who has a higher repair bill. :P

[autox02altima]

In all fairness, the Liberty is on Consumer Reports recommended list. It's not an unholy piece of crap or anything.

[CRIANA]

I rode in my bosses Liberty the other day. I was impressed with the smooth ride, and the acceleration.

Inside was tighter than my 2002 CRV, the quality of the dash and fabrics was similar to the V, but definitely not any better. I did find it very easy to get in and out of, being a short person that counts to me.

And my only thing to say is that if he feels he has to constantly compare his Jeep and make you feel like you bought an inferior car, maybe he doesn't believe in his car quite so much, why does he need to prove it? just a thought.

Your wallet over time will prove you made the smarter decision.

Granted if he's the type who's off road every weekend, then the Liberty was a good vehicle for him.

[utah]

I'm not a fan of the Jeep Liberty design from a perspective of how it looks. And, it's shift on the fly part time 4Wd, is great for heavy off roading, but it can sure be expensive to fix and maintain if you have problems.

And, based on the experience that I had with my 2000 Cherokee, I'm not convinced these New Liberty's are going to hold up. I do a lot more mileage then most folks and my 2000 Cherokee definitly started to go south mechanically at 100,000km (60,000 miles) with a new rear differential required and front u-joints at 80k. The Liberty came out in 2001. Most people might have 30 - 60k miles on them at this point if they purchased in 2001. Wait till those babys get up to about 60,000 to 80,000 miles and then tell me how reliable they are. They all work great while under warranty those Chrysler made vehicles.

Oh...did I mention that the paint was peeling after 3 years?

And, Don't forget, the Cherokee with the I-6 4.0 litre engine had the reputation of having a bullet-proof engine. I can assure you....it was not bullet proof. Search out issues on Grand Cherokees, if you want to read some horror stories.

Frankly, I would never touch a Daimler-Chrysler product again. That in itself, is the best comparison factor in your favour.

he drives a Chrylser....you drive a Honda.

Jeep, is Jeep in name only these days. The Liberty i believe will turn into some serious horror stories for those owners, who are now going to approach higher mileage and no warranty coverage.

[mau108]

not always the case....

Chrysler did have its days, but thats with certain vehicals ;)
Wasnt the Liberty redesigned from bottom up? Or am i dreaming?

Dad has a chrysler minivan (92) and its still running strong, if he took more care of the body it would be in good shape...but its still in running condition with v6 power (kills my v off the line hehe)

hope to get the minivan on "pimp my ride" show with xzibit (on mtv on thursday nights)

it would be sick to pimp out ;)

[utah]

Yes, the Liberty is redesigned and manufactured in a new facility, versus the Cherokee.

But, it is still a DC made Jeep. Given the issues that many Grand Cherokee owners complain of, I would be surprise if these Libertys don't start showing warts soon. Sometime after the warranty runs out, no doubt. Those in the know on Jeeps in 2001, pointed out many shortcuts taken on the redesigned Liberty in terms of driveshafts, transfer cases, limited slip differentials and front and rear differentials. All super expensive to repair if they give you issues.

Glad to hear your dads minivan is hanging in nicely. But, it is the DC made Jeeps that I am most concerned with.

[jeeplikens]

As with any part time 4wd system, problems are costly. If you think the Jeep brand has more problems in this area than others, I invite you to visit some other 4x4 pages (not AWD but part time/full time drive systems) and ask about costs to fix. If you "wheel", then you run the risk of banging your bottom, you run the risk of breaking something. I'm sure since KJ's were designed for offroad but geared more for onroad, other than wear and tear items, I'm sure they will just as "reliable" as anything else. Give'em some time. They do have a 7/70 power train warrenty so I'm not worried. I'm sure I'll get a tast of have a real 4x4 with it hits 30k. That's when all the fluids get changed. I've heard it's around 500.00 for the completed "offroad" service. If upkeep was a thought, I never would have bought a 13000lbs+ motorhome. Now, want to talk cost? Reliable it is but it requires a lot of PM. My tire cost could keep your V in rubber for it's entire life alone.

[Cadd]

jeeplikens, excellent write up.

There is NO right or wrong vehicle. There isn't a smart buy or "you made the right choice" vehicle.

You buy the vehicle that appeals to you most. Heck, people buy H2s to commute to work and go grocery shopping (we have 3 H2s at our Office lot). Stupid it may seem? Yes, but who are you to judge? If he/she has the money to spend on the vehicle/gas/maintenance, why shouldn't he/she be able to drive what he/she want?

Would I ever buy a Liberty? Probably not. But my reasoning is not because I'm against domestics or because I hate gas sucking SUVs, I won't buy one because I won't be using it to its full potential.

Would I buy another V? Probably not either. I should have purchased an Accord or another sedan that is similarly priced and put winter tires on it.

But I do enjoy driving the V. I enjoy finding rough roads and dirt trails to go on.

I'm sure if I every purchased a Liberty Sport, I'll be searching out for rougher trails.

Anyway, enough blabbing on. My point is, there shouldn't be a reason for anyone to say "my car is better than yours, blah blah blah blah".

You pick your vehicle that suits you the best.

Also, jeeplikens...your statement of your tires can cost the amount of the CR-Vs entire life's rubber is misleading.

The liberty has what? 16s? How much per tire? $80? The V has 15s and probably a little cheaper than that.

But I bet you'll come back saying your lifted Liberty with 33" tires are expensive.....but that's aftermarket....whole different story. Some members here have VERY LOW profile (30 profile) 20s. I'm sure those aren't cheap either.

[CRIANA]

He was talking about his motor homes tires :-)

Nothing personal jeeplikens, because I don't think you fit this category. Most people who buy Jeeps buy them for the status symbol. "I bought a Jeep because it can go anywhere" or and this is true account a friend said "But I like the way I look in the Jeep".

The same goes with Mercedes and BMWs (to name just two), of the owners who buy them, maybe 15% are actually car enthusiasts who love driving, the rest of the group is going for a "look" or how much they can spend their money on.

What is that common saying, the millionaire next door drives a toyota camry not a mercedes slk.

jm2c

[utah]

As with any part time 4wd system, problems are costly. If you think the Jeep brand has more problems in this area than others, I invite you to visit some other 4x4 pages (not AWD but part time/full time drive systems) and ask about costs to fix. If you "wheel", then you run the risk of banging your bottom, you run the risk of breaking something. I'm sure since KJ's were designed for offroad but geared more for onroad, other than wear and tear items, I'm sure they will just as "reliable" as anything else. Give'em some time. They do have a 7/70 power train warrenty so I'm not worried. I'm sure I'll get a tast of have a real 4x4 with it hits 30k. That's when all the fluids get changed. I've heard it's around 500.00 for the completed "offroad" service. If upkeep was a thought, I never would have bought a 13000lbs+ motorhome. Now, want to talk cost? Reliable it is but it requires a lot of PM. My tire cost could keep your V in rubber for it's entire life alone.

I changed my Cherokee rear diff oil at 12k kilometres. Then I switched to Synthetic Gear Oil at 24k km. Then, changed it ever 24 k after that. Pricey....about $300 Cnd at a pop to do front and rear diffs with synthetic.

None of it prevented the rear diff bearings from giving out at roughly 100k. $2000 later, it was back on the road. 20K km later, it was starting to make clunks again out of the rear end.

Front U-joints ( which you cannot lubricate ) on the Jeep were done at 80k km. Rear U-joint should probably need replacement at 120k km.

Transfer case needs new Oil at 48k km. All, fairly pricey jobs unless you can do it yourself. Now, did things wear out on the Jeep because I did harsh off-roading? Not at all. The vehicle never saw any hard off-roading. Regular every day riding caused it to start wearing out, regardless of the fact that it was maintained above and beyond what most will do.

Now, I admit. There is a definite rugged appeal to driving a capable and true 4 x 4 like a Jeep. I had no problem with paying the cost to maintain it as well. That was not the issue. As for tires, I ran Michelin Cross Terrain in the summer, and Toyo's in the Winter. Traction with the Toyo's in 4WD in winter was awesome. But, the part time system was not to great for mixed driving conditions between snow covered and dry pavement. AWD certainly is a better option.

So, yea...I liked my Jeep. It was that it just was built crappy, that was the issue. The newer Warranty is great. The 7 year 115k km powertrain warranty offered today in Canada would have taken care of my rear diff issue. So, yea....the better warranty helps ( 2000 Jeep had 3 year/60k km ). And I realize that so far, Libertys are holding up well. But, still....I just think the D/C cuts to many corners. I know too many with Grand Cherokee's acting up, to have any faith in the brand any more.

Still....when I see Cherokees on the road, I do miss mine. It was a killer looking Jeep ( see picture below of the Cherokee I owned ). The classic look and rugged appeal is why I purchased it. I understand why someone would say ' I like how I look in it '. I liked how I looked in my Jeep. I liked the image, and frankly....I'm still getting used to the idea of driving a 'Cute Ute'. Don't get me wrong. I'm not out to bash Jeep per say. I'm only saying that my experience, and the experiences of others I know have turned me off the brand.

I wish you luck with your Liberty, and hope your ownership experience surpasses my own in terms of expensive problems to fix.

http://members.rogers.com/utahsurfer/longpoint.jpg

[gtl7001]

There is no comparing the two vehicles since they were truly intended for different consumers, not what the marketing gurus want you to think. I bought my black 2004 CRV-LX with a manual tranny in January 2004 after doing extensive road tests of the CRV, Liberty, X-terra and Escape. I nixed the 5-spd MT 4 cylinder Escape because the ride felt too soft and materials used were cheap. The Escape I thought was a closer competitor to the CRV since both are small soft roading SUV's. The newer 2005 Escapes, I hear are improved so they might rate better. The V6 Liberty and V6 X-terra are much closer in comparison and both had tight rear seats and poor entry/egress when compared to the CRV. The Liberty did have nice road manners, much better than the bumpy ride of the X-terra. However, I did not like the fact that the A-pillar was very close to my head despite having the seat far back. Also there seemed to be a lack of shoulder room in the Liberty. I needed a truck for daily driving and for EMS/Rescue work, the CRV has lived up to my expectations, able to drive along unpaved dirt roads, jump the occassional curb, and go through 8 inches of snow. I am actually more amazed of the things I can do with the CRV that I did not expect it to be capable of in the first place. Guys in my rescue unit ribbed me at first and now after seeing that my CRV is capable of doing the same things their 'real' 26,000+ dollar suvs can with better gas mileage they don't say much anymore. I dont think you made a bad choice with the getting the CRV unless you plan to go rock stomping. Even then your brother in law will still need to modify his Liberty to prevent damage to the undercarriage. When he feels the need to show off his Liberty just remind him that your CRV gets better gas mileage, is more environmentally friendly, was cheaper to buy when new, and will have better resale/trade in value after 5 years.

[wbhikergirl]

The Jeeps of today are unfortunately not like the Jeeps of old. I learned to drive a stick on a 1969 Jeep pick up. The body on that thing rusted out before the motor died! My best friend and her family has purchased Jeeps for many years. They all admit that they're not like they used to be. Drive by a Jeep dealer and then by a Honda dealer. You'll see loads of Libertys, but the only CRVs you'll see are probably already sold waiting to be picked up.

I sold a Jeep last year to a customer who bought an Odyssey from me for his wife a month before. Same story, owned a Jeep 10 years ago and loved it. He wanted a Honda but it would take a month to come in and he wanted it now. So he wouldn't wait, even though I told him to. And when he found all sorts of "character traits unique to Jeep" (I'm being nice) in the first MONTH, he admitted that I was right and he should have waited for the Honda.

My fiance compares the Jeep Liberty to the CRV all the time. He also has no clue about things other than looks (let's face it, the Liberty is a lot nicer to look at). But Honda's never been about looks. And you either "get" Hondas or you don't. So be nice to your brother in law, maybe he just doesn't get it!!

[Paul_arbouw]

I Have a family member who is the same about her Liberty.. all I can say is that the two don't compare. She may be better off-road, but A) they always take her boyfriends Grand Cherokee for that fun and I agree with his rear window decal :
http://www.arbouw.com/Images/Photos/VA_Mar_04/DSCF0013_Small.jpg

and B) how often do you REALLY need those advanced offroad capabilities in real life?

My V is faster off the line and top speed (granted, it's a 5MT with modifications), and as already stated roomier and more comfortable. The front seats area about even, but the backseat in the Liberty sucks.

I prefer my Honda reliability (mine was actually build in Japan) and roomier interior. The Libery if a good vehicle if it meets the needs you have for towing and rough terrain. However since I never tow anything, or do any more offroading than going to work throught the snow covered roads in Indy.. My V suits me just fine.

It may not be entirely apples to oranges.. but pretty close to it..

Paul

[jeeplikens]

"but the backseat in the Liberty sucks"

But it's an improvement from Pre-Liberty models. If you want a REAL backseat for adults, buy a full size truck based SUV or a full size lux car. Had an LHS before the Liberty. Largest back seet's I've every seen. Man, if I had this car as a teenager.... If I had planned on hauling adults in the back, I would have gotten a GC or Explorer. Our class of vehicle was not built to carry 3 adults in the back (much less 2) in comfort. It's just un-realistic to think of going far with adults in the back. I have a short wheel base minivan. I don't have that extra few inches behind the back seat and the middle. I don't put adults in the back. Kids only. Now, a full size van? Can't beat the room with nothing less than a Motorhome. :D

I think the sticker is corney. I seen one on the back of a Wrangler (Don't follow me, you wont make it). That's good. This "it's a jeep thing, you wouldn't understand" is just hard core jeepers living in denial. I use our KJ for work and play but never will make an excuse of it's shortcommings (haven't had any yet) by saying "it's a jeep thing". Now, I'm going to be a little worried if I drive by a V parked on the side of the road and see it's driver out chaising a deer or something.. :?

[jeeplikens]

It's not "apples and oranges" any longer. Try this...

http://www.thewgalchannel.com/asseenon/3251760/detail.html

Good news is the issues with the Computers and the Liberty is none have reported to have just DIED. Things go on like strang shift patterns, rear hatch opening all by itself and after you shut it, it opens again, and again, and again.. Happened to me one morning. But after I cycled my locks, it didn't happen again. Just glad you can't get yellow as a color for the Libby. But I do have a GREEN one so guess I drive a lime, not a lemon. :D

[2000crvlx]

Thats a weird list. I mostly agree with it, What is up with the RSX???

Also on their suggested list, why is the sunfire and the Cavalier on the tops list, as far as i know these are pure American JUNK!

[perro_loco]

If you stick mainly to roads and like to do some offroading on the side (nothing too ridiculous) get a V. If you want something for mainly offroading and to modify for offroading get a Liberty. But don't think for a second the we aren't capable. Check this out its from our Paragon offroading meet.

http://www.hondasuv.com/main2/viewtopic.php?t=766&start=90

:mrgreen: LOVIN' EVERY MINUTE OF IT!! :twisted:

[perro_loco]

Oh yeah and nobody broke a thing

[Varmint]

Oh yeah and nobody broke a thing

Not true! Not true! You bent your license plate. Be honest now... :lol:

[2000crvlx]

You bent your license plate.
OH NO!!!! :shock:


LOL :lol:

[perro_loco]

Hey i said nobody "broke" anything :lol: and the fact that I bent my license plate away from my bumper doesn't count I didn't like it there anyway :P

[Varmint]

Right, that's what we call an "on site, trail-ready modification". :lol:

[autox17]

Thats a weird list. I mostly agree with it, What is up with the RSX???



I've been following some of the RSX forums and the biggest problems with it seem to be related to the transmission. Grinds on the 1-2 and 2-3 shifts and then also popping out of 2nd gear issues. Next to that seem to be a lot of drivers are doing 3-2 shifts instead of 3-4...missing the gate and it's causing a lot of bent valves and head damage.

I think some of them are having clutch issues too right out of the box.

[jeeplikens]

I'm not ragging the V but the hill is a good example of needing a V6 and maybe some other type of AWD system that gives you the ability to drop to a low range of gearing. Other than the driver might have been a little green, he has the guts and rule number one when wheeling. DONT GET IN A HURRY. Getting a running shot like he did could have been applied to just about anything with a little bit of ground clearance and gotten the same result.

[2000crvlx]

I'm not ragging the V but the hill is a good example of needing a V6 and maybe some other type of AWD system that gives you the ability to drop to a low range of gearing.


I don't think the CRV will ever be built to be in direct compitition with a Jeep. But, they should note that most small utes are getting a V6 option in them.

[jeeplikens]

I was thinking it could be offered? I at first didn't want to look at the V because it didn't have a 6 but went to look anyway. Thanks to the butt hole sales person, I stopped at a Jeep dealer and didn't go anywhere else. Having lived in California, I don't know how ANY 4cyl's make it out there. Maybe Hondas plan is not to offer a 6 for the V because it could hurt the Pilot's appeal. JMO..
My KJ is in the shop getting a new bumper and fender flare, turn sig and some fresh paint because of a red light runner.. :cry: They gave me a new PT Cruiser to drive. It's got a 4cyl in it. I really miss the V6.

[perro_loco]

I didn't like it in that position anyway :lol: and why should honda build a CRV to compare with a Jeep. They're playing in a field that they are good at and are sellin' alot just the way they are (or we all might not be here). Jeeps are for the folk that actually go offroad on regular basis and for those that go waaaay off road. CR-V's and the like are for us regular that spend most of the time in town and city and take it to the beach and country.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. And well we know Honda's don't break that often :mrgreen:

[jeeplikens]

I think the Gen 2 V's look a lot nicer than KJ's but I've been about duty, not looks. I wouldn't be driving a minivan if I was worried about looks.

[perro_loco]

oooo PT cruisers are kinda on the pokey side, unless its got a turbo on then it picks up some. Before I got my V I checked that out and a Matrix. Lookin for lots of room in a not too big place basically. The 4 on the cruiser is slow and it gets MPGs like my CRV. I would have lost my license in a Matrix. hehehe

[pjm]

Real men (and women!) park their CR-Vs at the edge of the woods, unload their mountain bikes, and conquer the the rough stuff on two wheels. Any wimp can drive over rocks!

[perro_loco]

Hell yyeaaaahhh. the absolute best way to travel thru the woods

[MikeN]

Go through the woods with this:

http://www.yamaha-motor.com/products/atv/500/04raptor660_BLU_3.jpg

[Turnbud]

Ok, I can finally do my own official comparison: I was in New Brunswick on a business trip and Budget gave me a Liberty instead of the Neon or whatever. Gotta admit, it added some fun to the trip. Went about looking for some logging roads etc. to try it out and I was impressed. Even got out of the vehicle and was proud to find some seaweed on the grill (crossed a stream with a steep entry - got a bow wave up on the hood momentarily!!) So, with the Liberty one week test completed:

Things that were better than the CRV:
-slightly less road noise
-better off road capability, real 4x4
-power (but I really don't care - the CRV is adequate, and it's not worth it in terms of fuel costs for me)

Things that were worse than the CRV:
-gas mileage
-interior space (there's no way the Liberty would work for me carrying the family to the cottage - the cargo room behind the rear seats is much smaller than the V. The flexibility of the interior in terms of arrangement with the V is far superior to the Liberty)

No question I'd buy the CRV again over the Liberty. MOST of the stuff I did off road I would do with the V, but no arguing the Libery is more capable in that category. Time will tell on reliability of the Liberty, but I know what I've got with a Honda. I did enjoy the Liberty, though. To each his own.

[jeeplikens]

Some interesting reading if someone is looking to get a Liberty. When is Honda putting a CRD in it's V? What I didn't know was the engine is "Italian" built, not German. I think I rather have a German engine since it's cheap diesels (VW) were strong runners.


http://www.auto123.com/en/info/news/previews,view,Jeep.spy?artid=25071

[Cadd]

Turbo Diesels are awesome. Most people still have the image of Diesels being filthy....but with new cars, Diesel engines are probably as clean as their gasoline counterpart.

Better fuel economy & 300 lb/ft of TORQUE!!!!

If there were more Diesel stations around, I wouldn't mind getting a Diesel powered vehicle. I'm sure I'll enjoy the extra torque :)

[grinvald]

Honda...Jeep...Not much to compair...Keep them for 5-10yrs and see whose is still running, and who has a higher repair bill. :P


It seems Jeeps have water pump replacement as 20K miles maintenance, or it fails every 30K. At least it's the case with the people I know who own Jeeps. Can't compete with them off-road though...

Dmitry.
Boston.

[hondacrvaz]

I agree with Cadd and Jeeplikens bring on the Diesel!!

[jeeplikens]

Honda...Jeep...Not much to compair...Keep them for 5-10yrs and see whose is still running, and who has a higher repair bill. :P


It seems Jeeps have water pump replacement as 20K miles maintenance, or it fails every 30K. At least it's the case with the people I know who own Jeeps. Can't compete with them off-road though...

Dmitry.
Boston.

What he said.
http://f2.pg.briefcase.yahoo.com/bc/boghar@ameritech.net/lst?.dir=/CLIFFS%2009%2026&.view=l&.src=bc

[1075]

If you want to compare something between the Liberty and the V show him the Consumer Reports reliability ratings. Granted, the relatively new Liberty is on their recommended list NOW, but show him the page that has the little circles that track reliability. The CR-V has NOTHING BUT ABOVE AVERAGE ratings ALL THE WAY BACK TO IT'S INCEPTION! I have owned a Jeep GC since 1997 and I can tell you that Jeeps are MOPARS thru and thru. In fairness, a comparison between the Liberty (or any other Jeep) and the V is not apples to apples.

The transmission was bad on my GC when it was delivered, rotors warped X3, fuel pump went, transfer case leaked, many suspension parts replaced, waiting for the rear axle shafts to go because they used inferior metal durung manufacture (only thing saving me is good maintenance and synthetic fluid)... And parts for a Jeep are Mopar with a 20% price increase added in. The 318 V8 was obsolete by about 5 years before Chrysler finally replaced it (won't pass emissions and uses oil, both known and common problems).

Sure, my Jeep has a much better 4WD system, but it gets about 13MPG downhill with a tailwind and is unreliable. That's why I bought a V, which has more room and plenty of on road power with the 4 banger, lesson learned.

[CRV440]

I had the chance to drive a rental Liberty for a couple days and compare to the V.

Pros: It does seem to have more power when I put my foot in it. It has a, well, maybe not a V-8 rumble, but I'll call it a V-6 grumble that I like. The floor shifter is much better than the dash-mounted shifter. I go down some big hills and I like to downshift often. Rear wheel drive is much more fun when accelerating. Windows still operate when the key is removed (until door is opened). A/C stays nice and cold even when in fresh air mode and the vehicle's not moving on a hot day. The steering wheel isn't in the way of the top of the speedometer (I'm 6ft tall).

Cons: Does not have as much cargo room. Loading two bikes is tough: The floor of the cargo area is higher and the cargo entry is smaller. It's a heavy vehicle: While using cruise control at 55mph, the Liberty would speed up to about 63mph going down a hill that the V stays at 55mph. Liberty still uses a solid axle in the rear. The ride is awful when you drive on Rhode Island's pot-holed roads. You can feel the rear end hopping and skipping sideways. Center console not very comfortable as an arm rest. And of course the gas mileage sucks.

Would I buy one? No. The CR-V isn't much different and my time is better spent on-road.

[MikeN]

It does seem to have more power when I put my foot in it.
A Gen II CR-V should out accelerate a Liberty in any engine combination. It probably felt stronger because of the typical torque bias of domestic engines. They give 90% of their torque right off idle, then run out of breath when really wound up, such as highway passing.

[CRV440]

It did feel good in the low rpms. Mmm, torque. You're right about the high rpms though; it started to feel like the engine was coming apart aroundr 5000rpm. Too bad I have to return the Liberty today. I would've liked to set up some controlled tests against a CR-V and make myself an honorary Mythbuster.

[jsstover]

I am currently driving an 03 Liberty. It is an excellent truck. It handles like a truck. It is a truck. Squirrelly over seams in the road. Feels heavy and bumbly (for lack of a better word). I have the SelecTrac AWD tranny, but you can still feel something, I am not sure binding is quite the right word, but you know when it is engaged. But, having said that, it never missed a beat in inclement weather or any "off-road" situation I through at it. Whenever it rains or we have the gray slushy winter days here in Ohio I am very glad to have the AWD. For the very few severely inclement weather days or muddy conditions I was glad to be able to lock the 4WD in.

It is interesting because I am lurking on this site to potentially move to a CRV. I am a very conservative driver and can only squeek out 19 MPG in mixed driving, and I do the whole 32psi, slow starts, coasting, etc tricks. Fuel is running about $2.30 a gal for 87 here. I put anywhere from $35 to $39 in per tank, usually lasts me about 6 days.

The Liberty also does not quite have the refinement that a Honda has. I had a 97 CRV and loved it, but lacked power. Granted, the 3.7L motor in the Liberty is light years ahead of the 4.0L in the Cherokees, it could still use a little more german refinement from the DC engineers.

Another issue is the lack of room behind the rear seat. You do run out of room back there very quickly. You can take yourself and three people to the airport, but luggage will be jam-packed to the roof. Christmas time proves difficult somethimes as well.

Visiblility is pretty good and I will say that I have no problem getting into or out of a parking space, and parallel parking is a snap. The rear tire soaks up gentle nudges when backing into the car behind you LOL.

If anybody has specific questions feel free to bounce them off of me.

[Got Diesel?]

Our 2004 CR-V replaced my wife's '93 Grand Cherokee Limited V8.

She loved her Jeep while I tolerated it. It was one of the many Jeeps that never went seriously off road.

When we bought it, she was pregnant and wanted something 4WD (we lived in a snow belt east of Cleveland) and I had done enough miles in a fleet of Ford Explorers to know that we didn't want one of those.

We test drove the Jeep and it actually handled significantly better than the Explorer.

It was a disaster during the warranty period--three oxygen sensors, an excessively corroded brake rotor, two leaking a/c condensers and a front sway bar assembly were all replaced at their expense.

I was expecting the worst when the warranty expired, but to my shock and utter amazement, the thing soldiered on for 125,000 miles with hardly anything outside of ordinary maintenance and still drove pretty darn well when we sold it. The H20 pump let go at 115K but that wasn't a particularly nasty bill.

My wife now loves her CR-V and even I enjoy driving it from time to time. I like how it has more room inside than the old GC ever did while being smaller on the outside.

The fuel economy is much appreciated and it's just a much more nimble, fun to drive vehicle.

Last summer in Las Vegas I rode from the airport to the hotel in the back of seat of Liberty and was shocked that any cabbie would willingly press a Liberty into cab duty.

Luggage space and rear seat legroom was tight and the ride was pretty edgy. We didn't have the CR-V then, but I know I would think of the Liberty as coming up short compared to it.

Last week in SFO I saw cabs of all kinds... Ford Crown Vics of course, Toyota Camry's, a couple of Jeep Libertys, the odd London Taxi here and there and even a Daewoo Leganza.

And I was thinking how great a cab a CR-V would make.

[charlie408]

just remember when you argue with an idiot over people have a hard time telling who the idiot is. let him talk shit, them when his ride has problems just smile and try not too remind him of all the shit talken he did :wink: just dont try to chalange him in the off-road area he will win.

[Rodsterin_FL]

The Liberty is nice. I spent a lot of time researching recently on the small suvs and the Liberty and Nissan Xterra seem to be more the offroad category or at least to me. The emphasis was engine and 4WD more than any other factor. The lower MPG (sacrifice) makes the point as well.