Idiot Lights.

[22T]

I bought a Honda Pilot at my wife's urging last year. Last Saturday night, the Engine light and VTM-4 light both came on as we were driving home. I checked the manual and it said that the engine light was most likely a failure of the emission control system and that the VTM-4 light was most likely a problem with the 4 wheel drive system.

I left the car parked on Sunday. Monday morning I drive the car to work (both lights still on). I call the dealer where I bought the car. The conversation went like this:

Me: "Hi. I've got a 2003 Honda Pilot and two of the warning lights ---"
Service Secretary: "You had the service reminder light come on."
Me: "No, one light is the engine light and the other is the VTM-4 light."
Secretary: "Oh, my goodness. How did it happen?"
[I give her details]
Secretary: "When can you bring the car in?"
Me: "On my lunch hour, in about 30 minutes. That be okay?"
Secretary: "That'll be just fine."
Me: "If you folks need to keep it overnight, I'll need a loaner car. Can I arrange that with you?"
Secreatary: "The service department guys will help you out with that."

So, I get there and check in with service. The 'Service Advisor' says, "There'll be a $75.00 charge to determine if it is a warranty item."

Me: "What? I bought the extended service plus agreement when I bought the car! Are you telling me that there is anything that could possibly be 'not covered' after only a year?"
Service: "Well, if we are able to determine that it is a warranty component, they'll waive the $75.00"
Me (thinking it's gotta be a warranty part): "Okay. And I'll need a car. The secretary told me you guys would fix me up with that."
Service: "We don't do that."
Me: "Look, I had this car serviced when I first got it and I got a civic to drive until you were done. How'd I manage that?"
Service: "I don't know. But Honda never gives out loaner cars."
Me: "So how am I going to get home tonight if you have to keep the car overnight?"
Service: "I don't know. I'll try to get the car back to you by the end of the day."
Me: "So, I'm just stuck here?"
Service: "I guess so."

So, I walk 4 miles in 37 degree weather with the wind howling back to the office. I get a call near the end of the day. The car is ready. I'm told that they got an error message that cylinders 1 and 4 were mis-firing and there was an intermittent problem with the 4 wheel drive component. They test drove it and the idiot lights stayed out. They did nothing to fix the problems. They told me to "be sure and call back if the lights go back on." I got billed $75. On the way home, at 50-55 mph I got the shudder common to engine missing and kept hearing a click near the rear of the car.

My question is as follows:
Is all of Honda this screwed up? Is it that all Honda service is horrible or is it just the dealer I made the mistake of buying from?

[msk]

I can certainly feel your pain. My Pilot is my 8th Honda. My service guys are the best.

I have never been asked to pay for diagnostics by a Honda.

I also have never been given a loaner car from a Honda Dealer. BMW yes. Honda never.

If your car is under warranty (<36,000miles and < 36 months old) or you have extended warranty or Honda Care you should not have to pay for diagnostics, especially if malfunction lights are on. I would call Honda Customer Relations By Phone (800) 999-1009 or By Fax (310) 783-3023 (24 Hours). They should be able to help you.


Best of Luck.

[CRIANA]

Just an FYI, loaner cars are a dealership thing. It's a load of bull if a dealership says the entire manufacturer doesn't do loaners.

Torrington Honda in CT does loaners. Fair Honda in CT does not.

Also I've never been charged a diagnostic charge.

Sorry to hear what you had to go through :-(

[22T]

I called another dealer. He said he'd be happy to take care of the car and apologized. He said, "That just simply isn't the way Honda wants to do business."

He also told me that he has never charged a "diagnostic fee" for any car still under warranty. He said that alone was outrageous and that I should return to the dealer and demand my money back.

I don't know if I'll do that or not. My first cousin is Principal Engineer at the Maryville, OH Honda plant (that means he's management and has 30+ engineers reporting to him). I think I'll give him a call and ask him where it would do the most good to send a letter. I mean, the folks at the other Honda dealer were so courteous and understanding, it's a pity that the goobs I bought the car from nearly turned me off to Honda products entirely.


Thanks for the phone number as well. I'll be using it. ;0)

[N_Jay]

Sounds a lot lik eth EGR valve problem several of us have had.
Have the dealer call th etech line or another dealer.

If it detected the miss, they should do more than reset the codes.

Time to find another dealer.

[PatrickC1026]

You sure need to go to another dealer and report Honda customer relations about the dealer who charged you $75 for diagnosis.

BTW, moving this thread to Clinical Rounds.

[redn22]

What a crock of sh*t! I would storm right back at that first service center and give him a piece of your mind! Tell him that he's full of BS and that in fact the other Honda Dealer that you went to was very courteous.

Talk to the Store Manager about your recent experience and tell him/her that you WILL be filing a complaint to Honda Customer Relations.

Demand your money back... Never in my life have I heard such BS of a dealership treating someone like that... Especially on a $40,000 "canadian" vehicle!

Good luck and please let us know how everything goes....

BTW - Like what NJay said, it sounds like a faulty EGR Valve... It's starting to become a common problem with the Pilot... Hopefully the EGR caused some kind of glitch to the computer that it's causing the VTM-4 warning lamp to go on...

[chowgirl]

what redn said....:)

[wbhikergirl]

Did you speak to the Service Manager or GM? If not, I'd suggest you try that first. If that doesn't get you anywhere, then definitely call Honda. They'll make the dealer address the issue. BTW, some mfgrs DO actually have loaner cars programs... Mercedes, Volvo, etc. Honda does not, not even for Acura. It's the individual dealer's choice whether they will offer a customer a loaner vehicle.

[N_Jay]

Just an FYI, loaner cars are a dealership thing. It's a load of bull if a dealership says the entire manufacturer doesn't do loaners.

Torrington Honda in CT does loaners. Fair Honda in CT does not.

Also I've never been charged a diagnostic charge.

Sorry to hear what you had to go through :-(

True some dealers may do loaner cars, but Honda as a corporation does not include this in their warranty.

Acura, on the other hand, does.

[redn22]

My dealership doesn't have courtesy cars, but I just haggle my salesperson and he ends up lending me his 2003 Accord V6 Coupe... VROOMMMM!!!! hehehe

22T - So what was the final outcome of this whole adventure of yours? I'm curious...

[kristfr]

As for loaner cars: I purchased a HondaCare extended warranty from the dealer, which specifically allows for "Rental Vehicle Reimbursement" when the car is being serviced for warranty items. I think it's a pretty standard contract. However, when I call the service dept., I have to be very clear (because they don't do "loaners" either) that's it's warranty work, and it's via the extended warranty contract, etc. It was frustrating the first time, and I had to call Honda Care twice, then have them call the dealer, but eventually it worked out. Hopefully yours will too. Unfortunately, I don't get my salesman's S2000, just a base model Civic.