Instability on Grooved Surfaces

[JerryIII]

I read a consumer review (see below) about the 2007 Honda CR-V on the Edmunds web site and was wondering if anybody had any information regarding the problem the reviewer describes?

Date Posted
11/21/2006 Unstable, unsafe, on grooved pavement by norcalsteve
Style: EX-L 4dr SUV AWD (2.4L 4cyl 5A) Rating 5.9

Review: Bought the car 2 days ago, today was the first time on our lousy Hwy 101 in Santa Rosa, Ca. BUT - wherever you drive this car, if the pavement is grooved, usually a concrete road, or if there are a lot of cracks running the direction of travel, this car will be unstable. It's like the rear wheels are loose, it's annoying, I think it's unsafe, when you have many lanes of travel, and it's hard to keep the CRV in it's own lane. I travel this road all the time, my other vehicles do not act this way. And - all the Honda service department says it's the tires, and nothing can be done about it. Great, when I get sideswiped by another vehicle then what? Blame the tires !
Favorite Features: The look of it.
Suggested Improvements: Make this car safe to drive !!!!

[central jersey steve]

I have had my V (EX-L) one week. I drive 136 miles a day commuting to and from work, on all manner of Jersey highways. I have not experienced this problem yet, though I don't know if I've been on "grooved" surfaces.

To date, I am EXTREMELY satisfied w/the vehicle. The handling and ride are excellent.

In fact, this weekend, I received 2 compliments on the car. I cannot remember the last time I evert received compliments on any car I ever owned.

[mdugan7000]

What a dumb post. (No, I don't mean JerryIII, I mean the moron who wrote that on the Edmonds site.) Maybe the dude needs to keep both hands on the wheel? Any vehicle will follow the grooves no matter what tires you put on.

What will be next that car manufacturers have to save us from? If only a car could save us from our own stupidity. :roll:

[Visiting_Guest]

i have no idea what his intent was with the edmunds post, but i will say this.

When we had our 95 Maxima - it did what this guy was describing. Now - GIVEN - it had a solid rear beam axle so yea, but there was a section of highway with horizontal grooves, the rear end of the car felt like it was in FLIGHT over this patch. It would scare the life out of me, the rear end would jump all over the place.

i would like to DOUBT that is the case with the new V

[wildswing]

Most cars will do that to some degree. From what I've learned (on another forum), some tires are more susceptible to this that others. It may also have to do with the width of the tires as well. My Mustang, with 245/45 R17 tires all around, loves to follow cracks like a blood hound. A buddy's Mustang with the stock 225/60 R15 tires isn't nearly as likely to wander.

[Visiting_Guest]

I honestly think the guy from edmunds was talking about grooves that go across the pavement like ----
----

thats what i was referring to at least. All tires track in vertical grooves, aint no thang!!! :wink:

[JHonda]

I noticed the same thing on my V when driving on the freeway made with cement with the grooves going in the same direction as the lane instead of asphalt. I think it is just the Bridgestone tires that come on the new V. My mother in law has a 2000 V with Michelin tires and I had a 97 Camry with Michelin tires also and I didn't feel the vehicles floating like the CRV does. I have gotton used to it already though. I will just replace the tires with Michelins when the time comes.

[chiph]

Always comes down to tires, and their inflation. It's possible they still are at the PDI (wrong) inflation of 44 psi.

Chip H.

[JHonda]

Always comes down to tires, and their inflation. It's possible they still are at the PDI (wrong) inflation of 44 psi.

Chip H.

All 4 of my tires are at 30 psi. The salesman told me that I should have the pressure at about 34-36 to save on gas, I personally would rather have a more comfortable ride, coming from the camry.

[07GTCRV]

Jerry III

what a relief, i thought i was the only that had this problem. i took it back to my dealer the minute i felt it and reported to them that the wheels felt like it was going to come off. they supposedly checked but said it was ok. i guess im stuck with the problem. also any one had problems with the starter?

[kwarner]

I support wildswing's statement that it often has to do with the tires. Some are more supceptible than others to a "squirmy" feel on longtitudinally grooved pavement.

I'm on my third set of tires on my Honda Accord. This was the first time I tried Yokohama Avid Touring tires. And boy to they squirm. There is a freeway less than a mile from my house that I know well. It has grooved pavement. After the Yokohamas were put on, yow, what is that? I then checked on TireRack and other people reported the same thing. The Avid Touring is prone to squirming on grooved pavement.

[sleeksilver]

Jerry III

what a relief, i thought i was the only that had this problem. i took it back to my dealer the minute i felt it and reported to them that the wheels felt like it was going to come off. they supposedly checked but said it was ok. i guess im stuck with the problem. also any one had problems with the starter?

You thought the wheels were going to come off??? :roll:


It's not a problem, it's called tramlining and many cars do this including my Acura. Keeps your hands on the wheel and it isn't a big issue.

EDIT: I just found this on tirerack.com. It's all about tramlining.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=47

[corleydl]

I have a 05 SE that was delivered w/ Bridgestone tires. I experienced this problem when driving on groove concrete. The CRV's motion was severe enough that my head almost hit the side window several time. At 1,200 miles I ditched the Bridgestones for Mitchelin Destiny tires. This is the same tire as the Mitchelin Harmony. Driving on grooved concrete is no longer a problem

[Carbuff2]

I have had my V (EX-L) one week. I drive 136 miles a day commuting to and from work, on all manner of Jersey highways. I have not experienced this problem yet, though I don't know if I've been on "grooved" surfaces.



CJSteve:

Take a ride on Interstate 287 north of Rt 80, then. The concrete is grooved in the direction of travel. http://www.elisetalk.com/forums/images/smilies/whatthahell.gif

It's true that this behavior is tire-brand-dependent, but it can also be affected by wheel alignment and pressures. 07GTCRV, ask the dealer to verify that alignment is within spec, and get a copy of the printout the alignment machine generates. (And ask them to inquire of American Honda about tweaking the specs to minimize the feeling.)

++++++++

That said, I gotta report that my '06 is OK on the grooved pavement. :?

[Niea]

I actually noticed this problem just yesterday.

There's a short section of interstate here that has verticle grooves and while it's always been annoying, in the V it's much worse! Not to the point that I thought the wheels were going to fall off, but it was considerably harder to keep the it going in a straight line than my previous car (a '98 Cavalier). It feels like there's a very strong gust of wind blowing across your car, pushing you into the adjacent lane. But holding on to the wheel with both hands and making an effort to keep it straight was enough to keep it on track.

Initially I chalked it up to the difference between an SUV and a sedan. Since I don't have any experience driving an SUV and am used to the Cavalier of 9 years, I just figured I wasn't used to the way the V handled. But maybe it's a bigger problem?

[sleeksilver]

Neia- It's not a bigger problem, its called TRAMLINING!!! :?

Please read the link I provided above.



corleydl- It's Michelin, not Mitchelin.

[Niea]

Neia- It's not a bigger problem, its called TRAMLINING!!! :?


Thanks, then. :rolleyes:

What I'm trying to say, then, is that the V tramlines much, much more than my old car. It really took me by surprise since I drive over that patch of interstate at least once a week and have for years. . and this time was noticably much harder to control the car.

[jitterypeanuts]

I noticed the same problem RIGHT away when I got my brand new 2007 CR-V. Checked the tire pressure, it was fine. It was so bad driving on roads with the vertical grooves that it felt slightly "hydroplanish" (yeah, I made that word up, lol) or like driving in icy conditions. At first the difficulty in maneuvering was very alarming, but now I just expect it every time and am more relaxed when it happens.
Just to note: these are the same roads that I am familiar with and have driven my WHOLE life on, yet have never experienced the same problem with any other car. Also, my last car was a 1997 CR-V, and it did NOT "float" on the grooves as my new car does.
**Took car to dealer and mentioned the problem, they checked alignment and tire pressure/wear, said everything fine.

My conclusion is that it must just be yet another symptom of these crappy Bridgestone tires that came with the car stock. I have now had the car for a year with 26,000 and the tires are officially BALD. In process of buying replacements ASAP. I will let you know if this improves the extreme poor handling on grooved roads to normal expectations.

P.S. For people that argue that this tracking is normal in all cars on grooved roads -- I agree -- however, the problem that I am reporting with these stock tires is FAR, FAR worse than normal, and therefore noteworthy. Yet another complaint I am noticing about these tires...

[cderalow]

i have no idea what his intent was with the edmunds post, but i will say this.

When we had our 95 Maxima - it did what this guy was describing. Now - GIVEN - it had a solid rear beam axle so yea, but there was a section of highway with horizontal grooves, the rear end of the car felt like it was in FLIGHT over this patch. It would scare the life out of me, the rear end would jump all over the place.

i would like to DOUBT that is the case with the new V

wow, not sure where you came up with a nissan maxima having a solid rear beam axle... but last I checked, the 95-99 years of the maxima were front wheel drive, and had 4 wheel independent suspensions... so there was no rear axle at all.

[mrtn]

wow. that's an old thread.

however, to the OP - living in snow belt where most of the people drive studded winter tires i know what the issue is about. the studded tires scrape the pavement off the road and in winter there are quite deep grooves which cause the car to start wandering. the rule of thumb is that the lower profile-wider tires, the worst the effect is.

then they spend the whole summer fixing the roads :(

[1ownerT]

I noticed the same problem RIGHT away when I got my brand new 2007 CR-V. Checked the tire pressure, it was fine. It was so bad driving on roads with the vertical grooves that it felt slightly "hydroplanish" (yeah, I made that word up, lol) or like driving in icy conditions. At first the difficulty in maneuvering was very alarming, but now I just expect it every time and am more relaxed when it happens.
Just to note: these are the same roads that I am familiar with and have driven my WHOLE life on, yet have never experienced the same problem with any other car. Also, my last car was a 1997 CR-V, and it did NOT "float" on the grooves as my new car does.
**Took car to dealer and mentioned the problem, they checked alignment and tire pressure/wear, said everything fine.

My conclusion is that it must just be yet another symptom of these crappy Bridgestone tires that came with the car stock. I have now had the car for a year with 26,000 and the tires are officially BALD. In process of buying replacements ASAP. I will let you know if this improves the extreme poor handling on grooved roads to normal expectations.

P.S. For people that argue that this tracking is normal in all cars on grooved roads -- I agree -- however, the problem that I am reporting with these stock tires is FAR, FAR worse than normal, and therefore noteworthy. Yet another complaint I am noticing about these tires...

I have experienced the same thing on a 5 year old stretch of highway near me. I too have the crappy Bridgestones, I have found that upping the air pressure to 33 to 34 psi helps considerably. I have three other vehicles including my company truck, none of them exhibit the same "problem" as the CRV.
I believe it to be a combination of the tire design and the recommended air pressure.

[t_simmonds]

I noticed a problem going across a long bridge with metal grates in the roadway. I had the OEM Continental tires and it did not matter what the air pressure was. I tried everything form 28-36 psi and found that the problem was less at higher pressures, but still annoying. I have since replaced the Continental tires and no longer have the problem. I have come to the conclusion that it was the tread pattern on the tires. I do not know for sure, but it felt like the tread was partially dropping into the grates. Overall, I was not happy with the OEM Continentals.

[mrtn]

i'd like to add here that the most directional stable car i have driven was my late HR-V. it could keep on going for miles and miles virtually without me touching the steering wheel. it ignored the grooves.